5 Transformational Team Habits

LinkedIn (00:00:49) - LinkedIn presents.

Jonathan Fields (00:01:01) - So have you ever felt like your team could just do so much more if you just weren't better together? We have all been there, stuck in dysfunctional team dynamics, unproductive meetings and confusion around decision-making. The doubts start to creep in. Are we even capable of working smoothly together? Why does collaboration feel so hard? So when was the last time that you joined a new team only to encounter friction or a lack of alignment and difficulty getting things done and coordinating and started to maybe wonder if you were meant to work together, or when you tried to assess whether challenges that you're facing are just growing pains to really just push through? Or is it actually a sign to make changes? Team dynamics are complicated, but they don't necessarily have to be.

Jonathan Fields (00:01:51) - And that's where we're headed in today's Hot Take episode. Unpacking the common pitfalls that teams face and how to transform team habits to excel together. And on deck with me this week is Charlie Gilkey, a strategic advisor, executive coach, founder of the Productive Flourishing Consultancy and author of the critically acclaimed Start Finishing, as well as his fantastic new book, Team Habit, which is now available. So drawing on a lot of research and decades of experience coaching leaders, Charlie and I dive into the five key stone habits that really helped to create the foundation for team excellence. So imagine being able to tap into the full potential and passion of every team member picture meetings that engage and excite instead of putting you to sleep or worse, or envision a workplace culture that is built on trust and mutual understanding and gets astonishing things done with ease. It's all a lot more possible than you might imagine when you shape the right team habits. So Charlie and I really explore how to do that, how to cultivate belonging, streamline decision making, boost accountability, improve meetings, and truly understand your team's capacity and how to unlock it.

Jonathan Fields (00:03:08) - So if you want to become a better leader, manager or team member, this episode is essential. Listening. Join Charlie and I for an inspiring dose of team habit wisdom. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. Hey, before we dive into today's show, you know, we've learned that a lot of our listeners are sort of at this moment where they're really exploring the notion of work in their lives and their next moves in their careers. And if you are in that place, we talk about the spark and the sparketypes a lot on this show, this body of work that we've developed to help you really identify what makes you come alive and how to apply that to the world of work. We've heard from a lot of folks that they would also love some help along that journey. If you're curious, you can also find on our website a directory of Certified Sparketype Advisors who know this body of work and can really help coach and guide you through it. So we'll drop a link to the show notes in that right now.

Jonathan Fields (00:04:08) - And if it feels interesting to you and you just like somebody to help guide you through this next part of your career or work journey, take a look and see if somebody resonates. It might be the perfect fit to help you along this next leg of your journey. Again, that link is in the show notes now.

Jonathan Fields (00:05:03) - Charlie Gilkey, esteemed member of the Sparked Brain Trust I am so excited to dive into today. We have a topic which is near and dear to you and is also pulling ideas, key ideas from your fantastic new book Team Habits, which is just so important and so timely right now.

Jonathan Fields (00:05:23) - The whole notion of leaders and managers grappling with how do we show up ourselves in the best way for our teams? How do we invite our teams, each member treat them as individuals with dignity and respect, and also bring them together into some coherent team to help them actually show up and do the work that we're all here to do at a level that makes us feel amazing. And your book, Team Habits is really just it is sort of I feel like it is it's the new manual on what to really consider. So I'm excited to tease out a set of team habits that we're sort of teed this up as as five transformational team habits and strongly recommending that people do not stop with these five, but really dive deeper into your work in this book because absolutely fantastic. Anyone in leadership position. This is a must read, in my opinion, and anyone who is on a team, it'll just help you understand yourself and the dynamics in a completely different way and how to show up in a way that feels in integrity and also in a powerful way and contributed to the collective effort.

Jonathan Fields (00:06:25) - So, Charlie, before we sort of dive into these five transformational habits, give me a bit of a meta lens on what do we actually talking about when we're talking about team habits?

Charlie Gilkey (00:06:35) - Well, first off, thanks for having me. Listener In case you hear it, I'm actually going through Covid right now, so you're going to hear it in my in my voice. I'm doing well here for the conversation, but I just want to go ahead and get that out of the way. You know, what I've done in team habits is taking the fairly ubiquitous understanding that personal habits like make a difference, right? What we do day in, day out, make a difference to our success. And I've just taken that science and knowing that we have from personal habits and applied it to teams because it turns out teams have habits, too, right? And if it's important on the personal side for you to have good habits, it's even more important for you to have good team habits. Now, the difference between personal habits and team habits is that when it comes to team habits, they are typically implicit social agreements with other people.

Charlie Gilkey (00:07:25) - So for my own personal habit, like I've had, decide to change one of them, I don't really need to talk to a bunch of people. It's just my own decision. But teamwork is collective work, and so to change a team habit requires some negotiation, some conversation, some, you know, making the obvious or making the explicit or making the implicit explicit. And so that's one of the chief differences when it comes to changing team habits. Most of the discord and frustrations we have about teamwork is actually not about our teammates. It's about our team habits. And so one of the reasons I want us to focus on team habits is because it lets us get back to the joy and wonder and beauty of the personal relationships we have with our teammates while still fixing the things about work that frustrate us.

Jonathan Fields (00:08:13) - Yeah, I love that. And the notion that there is sort of there are these written and unwritten rules or things that we do or don't do that often we're not even aware of. But that can make a profound difference.

Jonathan Fields (00:08:24) - Just centering that awareness I think is step one. But let's get specific here because we really want to provide some utility for our listeners in this. Let's walk through these five transformational team habits. So the first one that you talk about is the idea of opening regular team meetings with non work wins. Take me through this. What is it? Why does it matter and how does it change things?

Charlie Gilkey (00:08:48) - Well, all five of the habits we're going to talk about today fall within sort of the idea of rocket practice, which I talk about in the book. So many of these things are not hard to understand. And so as we go through these five listener, you might be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard that one before, which is great, but are you practicing it? The difficulty is in the practicing of this. And so, you know, I have eight different categories of habits in the book, and this first one is really about a belonging. It falls under belonging. And when you open regular team meetings with non work wins, what you actually do is open a lens for understanding the people that you work with outside of work.

Charlie Gilkey (00:09:26) - And I found that non work wins is a way that even the more shy, introverted people can participate because it's not like you have to share, you know, something you really big. You could just say something that was enjoyable. So you went on a walk with your kid or, you know, you went to the farmer's market or whatever, right? You can just share that non work win. What it does is make us remember one that we are people outside of work. Two, we often find that we have shared values and affinities and projects with our teammates, so we have those weak and strong ties that we get there. And three, it reminds us. Especially when you look at the wind side of things, that there are actually good things going on in the world outside of whatever meeting or whatever's happening in this particular meeting. So it's just a great primer to introduce some belonging, some rapport, but also set the tone of meetings really powerfully.

Jonathan Fields (00:10:19) - Yeah, I love that. And I feel like the another thing that it does when I think about it is it reminds you that your teammates are not just teammates.

Jonathan Fields (00:10:28) - They're actually human beings.

Charlie Gilkey (00:10:30) - Precisely.

Jonathan Fields (00:10:30) - With lives and experiences. And it's not just about what happens, like in the context of the project you're working on together. It's about like, who is a human being and what are the what are the experiences that you're bringing to that. And I think it it helps reorient us to the fact that not just teammates, human beings and like that matters because we all want to be seen as that way. Also, like we want to be seen as people who live and breathe and contribute beyond just the confines of this one particular team or project. Oftentimes these days, which are being stood up and then dismantled and reassembled differently at a far more rapid pace than historically we've seen. So I love that touchstone, even though we've probably all heard some version of that. Dropping back into that I feel like is just important on so many different levels.

Charlie Gilkey (00:11:16) - Absolutely. Well, and it gets us out of treating each other like cogs in the wheel, like we don't like being treated like that by anyone.

Charlie Gilkey (00:11:25) - Right. And so it just has us take the lead as a team, as a teammate to go there. Now, when I say team in today's session, I mean something fairly specific. I mean, the 4 to 8 people that you work with 80% of the time, not your department, not your organization, but just that group of 4 to 8 people. And that's important because these are personal relationships. You know each other. You know each other's kids. You know your favorite songs, you know your hobbies. And that becomes important when the inevitable bumps and tensions happen at work to remember that you're not fighting with some random person or some random teammate. It's Jonathan. It's Angela, it's Charlie. Like fundamentally understanding that helps you navigate some of those tensions. And remember, this is a person that most most people actually do like a lot of their teammates, right? That's one of the funniest things about this work for me is trying to really grapple with the tension of most of us, tend to like our teammates, but teamwork is hard.

Charlie Gilkey (00:12:29) - That's weird, right? Or we don't like work. Sometimes that's weird when we like the people we're working with. So this is a way to center the humanity of your fellow teammates and also those relationships.

Jonathan Fields (00:12:42) - Yeah, love that. That brings us to the second of the Five Habits. Here's where you talk about specifying the what you call three levels of decisions. So take me to this.

Charlie Gilkey (00:12:54) - All right. So three levels of decisions. A level one decision is a decision that someone can make and they don't have to tell anybody about. Right. You're just in the course of doing the work. You just go ahead and do it. And level two decision is a decision that someone can make, but they need to tell someone else around in a level three decision is a decision that someone can't make and they need to consult and confer with someone who actually does have that decision making authority. Now, we can also say three levels of actions in that same way. So actions you can take and you don't need to tell anyone actions you can take, but you need to tell someone actions that you can't take without getting permission.

Charlie Gilkey (00:13:28) - The reason why really specifying these three levels of decision is important is because when you look at so much of the team chatter that's happening is really people are really over communicating about level one decisions. They don't know that they can just do things and no one needs to know or they make too many level two and level three decisions and cram up conversations and one on one time with leaders trying to get them to weigh in on things that they don't need to weigh in on. Right. And so as leaders specifically, it could be helpful to use that framework with your teammates to say, you know what, here for your particular role, for your job, here are your level one decisions and actions. Just do them. Don't tell me about them. We don't need to talk about them. Here are your level twos and here are your level threes. And when you do that, what happens is a lot of those meetings are conversations. You happen where someone's like, Hey, I wanted to run something by you because I know that's a level two decision.

Charlie Gilkey (00:14:23) - Just go do it right. You don't need me for that, right? And this actually aligns a lot of the different levels of an organization because senior leaders want people to be able to make more decisions that are within their domain and not have so many decisions pushed up to senior leadership. And actually people lower in the echelon want to be able to have more autonomy in decision making and know what they can do without getting into this conversation. So it actually does a really good job of aligning the interests of all the different echelons of an organization.

Jonathan Fields (00:14:53) - Yeah, I love that. I think just that clarity. I mean, as somebody who has been on many teams, as somebody who's led many teams and currently does the notion that you can specify that and. Know that for those level one and level twos, people are just going to go do the thing. And both you get to focus much more on sort of like the bigger context that really you're dialed into. And they feel the sense of autonomy and competence and empowerment because they don't have to run to you with everything.

Jonathan Fields (00:15:20) - They don't feel like you're one of the biggest complaints that I hear from folks on teams is they're being micromanaged, you know, and this kind of cuts that off and basically says, let's just here's the agreement around it. You do you. And while that may scare some people, at least in the beginning, I think most people, once they get comfortable with the fact that they can and will make those decisions and take those actions, it's super empowering and it frees people. It just creates so much more freedom on a team as you go along your way. I also think it's interesting because the first thing that popped into my mind when you say a level one, level two, level three was, is this an analog for easy, medium and hard? And what I immediately realize is, no, it's not at all, because there may be decision like level three decisions, they're actually pretty straightforward and easy. But because of the nature of the context or the stakes or the way that the structure is, you still have to run it up the chain, whereas there may be much more complicated or involved or hard things, but that you still are fully empowered to make on your own.

Jonathan Fields (00:16:22) - So don't. So immediately I was like, Oh yeah, we can't conflate those two.

Charlie Gilkey (00:16:26) - Yeah, I'm glad you saw that. And you know, there are standard, standard guidelines. For instance, in many organizations and teams, you can't just fire someone like unilaterally without talking to someone. That's not a thing that can really happen unless like, they're lying, cheating and stealing. And then it might just be a level two. I fired them because they rely on cheating and stealing. And then everybody's like, okay, yep, that needed to happen, right? And so you can sort of work your way out. But I'm so glad that you saw that. It wasn't about difficulty. It was about context of the decision. The other thing that this will actually allow you to do in teams that have higher readiness and belonging is actually allow you to push on why some things are level three. What is it about that type of decision that makes it important to be considered at that level? So that's one thing that it does for you.

Charlie Gilkey (00:17:10) - The second thing that it will do for you is it will shift you from just going into a decision by decision by decision mode to actually helping the team figure out how decisions are made and why they're made. And once you unlike that, that's when you get a lot of really high performance for a team because the team knows how decisions are made before any decision comes up. And it just gives them such a powerful tool for navigating work.

Jonathan Fields (00:17:34) - Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. Transformational team. Habit number three. Never give somebody a job. Specify ownership. Everybody has been on the other side of this. But even so, tell me what you mean by this, how it shows up and why this matters.

Charlie Gilkey (00:17:52) - Yeah, the way I normally say this is somebody never does anything right? And so what happens is, you know the deal. You're on a meeting and it's like, we need to do this. And that sounds like a great idea. And that's an action that needs to be taken.

Charlie Gilkey (00:18:02) - There's a lot of somebody in there. Right? And inevitably, those tasks that are assigned to somebody in that sense don't happen. And I would even go as far as to say co-ownership of a task is really problematic, right? Because the other person is very easy for one person to think the other person is doing something and the other person that thinks the other person is doing it and it still doesn't happen. So whenever you see in conversations, in meetings and tasking and writing, whenever you see that looming, somebody as a team habit get good about saying, Hey, who's actually responsible for that? Who's actually pushing that forward? Whose task is that? Whose decision is that? And it's a specific person that needs to do that, not somebody or we be very careful of. We as leaders especially. Right leaders use a lot of we talk for a lot of good reasons. But when it comes down to tasking and coordination, we is just such a bad, bad sort of way of thinking about it.

Charlie Gilkey (00:19:02) - It's like you need to do this. And again, the higher the the readiness and role clarity of the team, the more it might be obvious of who owns a certain task or decision. But it never hurts to make the obvious explicit and say, okay, you know, Steve's responsible for making plans. We need a plan made. So Steve's on. That only takes another 3 or 4 seconds, but it gets rid of that. We or excuse me, it gets rid of that. Somebody needs to make a plan. No, Steve makes the plan.

Jonathan Fields (00:19:31) - Yeah, and I love this. And I feel like one of the nuances here also is, especially as a leader, sometimes you may be a little bit concerned at saying, quote, you know, like like you need to do this because that languaging, which is very direct and it doesn't have anything overtly embedded in it, but that may be received by people as sort of like being almost like a dominance oriented instruction, like you need to do this.

Jonathan Fields (00:20:01) - And I think, you know, we never know somebody's history. We never know even if that is not your intent at all. So my sense is the language that we use in assigning ownership is also really important, whereas like you might just say, Hey, listen, like we've just agreed that this needs to be done, you know, like Sue, like how would it feel to you if you took ownership of this with that? Would that feel comfortable for you and exciting and like just a shift in the languaging that that sort of like invites somebody into a shared sense of power and acceptance and ownership of it, I think can make a huge difference in this. What's your take on that precisely?

Charlie Gilkey (00:20:36) - Yeah, you don't have to be as directive as you mentioned, you can be like, Hey, Charlie, you got it. And I guess I got it right. The ownership is still there. There's still that enrollment in there. And I also want to make space for the fact that many people actually do like directive language.

Charlie Gilkey (00:20:52) - They do like saying being said, Hey, Sue, this is yours. Great. I don't have to figure that out. I got a gazillion other things doing. So, you know, when we think about language of direction and language enrollment, there's no one right answer here per team or per teammate. So no, your team, again, 4 to 8 people, if you know Sue loves directive language and everyone else know Sue loves directive language. In a team meeting, you can say, Hey, sue you, that's on you. You got it by Thursday. So it was like, great, right? But if you know that Casey does not like being told that, you might have say, Hey, Casey, would it feel good for you to have that by Thursday in case he's like, Yeah, I could do that. The same point comes across, you just know your team and how to communicate with them.

Jonathan Fields (00:21:33) - Yeah, I love that. That brings us to team habit number four here, which is no meeting facilitator, no meeting.

Charlie Gilkey (00:21:41) - Yeah. I have a lot to say about meetings. Meetings are a kind of a go to whipping boy for when it comes to team dysfunction and bad team habits. But when you think about it, one of the reasons that meetings are so bad for so many companies and teams is because no one actually owns the meeting. Right? Whose job is it to make sure that the meeting doesn't suck? Right? You might think it's the team leader, but it doesn't have to be the team leader. And so by specifying meeting facilitator, one that gives someone whose job is to actually make sure that we have a good meeting. And two, it answers a few things like who's making the agenda? Well, by default, the meeting facilitator No, no meeting Facilitator. No meeting. No meeting agenda. No meeting. Right. It gets you out of showing up to those meetings to where it's like, you know, you're ten, 15 minutes into it and you still don't know why you're at the meeting, right? And you still don't know who's running the show and things like that.

Charlie Gilkey (00:22:31) - So I say this is a meeting facilitator because again, it doesn't have to be the team leader. It doesn't have to be the manager. This can rotate, right. And. And so you can have team meetings. Let's say you have a weekly team meeting. Well, you can rotate who facilitates that meeting. And what that does is one gives everyone the opportunity or burden, depending upon how you look at it, of actually preparing for meetings and understanding what it takes to make them go well. Two, it shares the load and the burden, and three, it makes sure that in case meetings are starting to go off the rails or it's not clear what's going on, there's one person that we can look at and say, Hey, what's going on here? What are we doing here? And can keep that going?

Jonathan Fields (00:23:11) - Okay. So here's the question that immediately pops into my mind. What you're saying is that this person, the meeting facilitator, does not, in fact have to be the manager or leader of that team in a scenario where it's not.

Jonathan Fields (00:23:22) - And the person who's taking the meeting off the rails is the manager or leader. Talk to me about like what happens, what what that meeting facilitator might do because I would imagine they'd be like, Well, I'm the meeting facilitator, I'm the keeper of the meeting. I set the agenda. But it seems like like my, my supervisor, my manager, like my leader is the one who's leading us off the rails a bit. And I'm a little concerned about confronting them about that, even though I know it's probably adding dysfunction to the meeting right now.

Charlie Gilkey (00:23:55) - Well, there are a few ways that you can do this. So one, remember that your team leader is also a part of your team. And that's important because we we make the team and then the team leader and then we end up creating different axes of power and conversations that don't then aren't necessarily there. So if you are the meeting facilitator and you're not the manager, one really great conversation to have with the manager is like, Hey, in case I see the meeting starting to go off the rails or going a different direction and it might be you the one that's doing that.

Charlie Gilkey (00:24:25) - How would you like me to keep it on place? Because fundamentally the meeting is there to serve the manager too, right? That's what you got to remember, right? And so they might be able to tell you like, Oh, well, I get really excited about strategy and I could talk about strategy for 20, 25 minutes and dominate the meeting. And I understand that. So here's what I need you to tell me, and you can work it out with the manager ahead of time and do a little bit of pre gaming if you know, that's a thing that's happening now, if it's happening during a meeting and again, looking at the fact that this is a teammate and you don't have to challenge status, you don't have to call them out or anything, you say, hey, I noticed that we're spending a little bit more time on this conversation here than we had intended on. So we have some options here. Do we want to kind of like bookend it a little bit or do we need to make room for some of these other agenda items somewhere else? Because we're probably not going to be able to do both in the time that we have.

Jonathan Fields (00:25:14) - Yeah, I love that. So it's sort of like you're thinking through what might happen in advance and then whether you have a conversation or not to sort of like pregame it or not, you still got you've got some strategies to navigate that scenario. And that brings us to transformational team habit number five. And this is steeped in work that I know has been a core part of just your philosophy and your practical skills and your strategies and how we get through the days and the weeks and the months and do like the right things for many, many years. It's the idea of using focus blocks to determine your team's capacity.

Charlie Gilkey (00:25:48) - Yeah. So I focus block is a 90 to 120 minute block of time where you can really get in there and do some, you know, deep work, maybe some decision making, maybe some writing. It depends on what your work is. But you know what? I'm most people know what I'm talking about is like, you really got to get into it and get the puzzle pieces out and put it together.

Charlie Gilkey (00:26:06) - There are 90 to 120 minutes because that's about as long as it takes for you to actually, like open the box, get all the pieces out and do what you need to do and put some good bookends on it. And most of us have realized that when we've tried to slot something like that in 20 minutes, it doesn't happen because you know you're not going to get anywhere on it. So it turns out that whether you're on a salary position or whether you're working 45 to 60 hours a week, that doesn't tell you much about what your actual capacity is. What tells you about your actual capacity is how many focus blocks you have throughout any given week. Because if you have zero, you're not going to do your best work. You're not going to do your strategic work. You're not going to push anything of substance forward. I'm excite for except for maybe having some meetings and things like that. So it helps a team get real. If you look at a team of five of you and you see that between the five of you over a given week, you all combined only have five focus blocks.

Charlie Gilkey (00:27:01) - First off, what is going on? What are you doing right? Let's have a conversation about that. Are you just eaten up by meetings? Is that what's going on or are you just not planning and doing your schedule? Well, like it gives you a tool to really understand really where your time is going. And on the flip side, if there's five of you and altogether you have 50 focus blocks and you're still not getting your best work and your strategic work done. There's also the question of where what are we actually doing? We have a lot of time, right? And we're not putting it towards some things. So, one, it helps you get real about how much actual. Cassidy, You have to push things forward. As a general rule, it's three focus blocks per project per week. If you don't have that much time, you're not going to push those projects forward. And if you see that your team just has a dearth of focus blocks, it opens up the conversation about what needs to shift so that you can all do the work that you're ostensibly hired for during the time that you're hired for it.

Charlie Gilkey (00:28:01) - Because the reality is many people are getting focused blocks at home and we want to invert that. We want people to have lives outside of work and not have to take so much work home with them. But to do that, you have to get clear about how many focus blocks you actually have at work during work time.

Jonathan Fields (00:28:16) - Yeah. And and just piggyback on that to make it clear, focus blocks that you're talking about are not just when you're thinking about your capacity, you're not just looking at the focus blocks that you have assigned to work. You're looking at your life also because, as you said, especially these days with remote work, virtual work, hybrid, more of a results oriented workplace, there's no sort of like standard. This is the time where I do this thing. Things have become woven much more into each other. And so when we're determining like how many focus blocks do I have available for work? And then of that, how many do I have available for this particular project? The the meta lens on that is, and what else is going on in my life that's taking up focus blocks that might also create a certain limitation on the total capacity of focus blocks I have for work in general because those all factor in as well.

Charlie Gilkey (00:29:09) - Precisely. And when you take seriously the fact of like how limited the focus blocks that you have actually are, it does a good job of having you sort of prioritize your work. If you know you've got three this week and you've got that important project that requires those three, you know in advance, that one, you're going to need to allocate those focus blocks to that project. But two, you might need to have some conversations with your teammates about what you're not going to get to right? Don't show up Friday knowing full well that you weren't going to get get them done and feel sorry about that. And instead of, you know, start at the beginning of the week and say, hey, team, here's what's going on. I've got this many blocks this week and this is a project we've all agreed is really important, right? I'm going to get this done, but that means I'm not going to be able to push these other things forward. Do we all agree with that? And if it's a yes, then you can go and do it and not feel like you're just trying to, like juggle all the balls but not get anywhere.

Jonathan Fields (00:30:06) - Yeah, no. So important. And if, you know, on any given week or time, you're like, I'm actually dealing with illness this week or dealing with a family emergency and, and you sort of anticipate okay so this is this is going to take X number of of those 90 to 120 minute focus blocks or I'm just not going to be at like capacity like I normally am. Let me allow for that within the next week or two weeks or whatever it is, and communicate that to my team so that they understand what's happening on a human basis and a capacity basis with me so we can all make the adjustments we need to feel the way we want to feel and do the thing that we want to do at a level that makes us feel good.

Charlie Gilkey (00:30:44) - Yeah, yeah. Most of us don't like surprises, right? And so by getting ahead of it, you really give yourself the ability to not surprise your teammates and to have great relationships with them.

Jonathan Fields (00:30:55) - Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Jonathan Fields (00:30:57) - Well, I think this is a good place for us to wrap up. Also, the if you've enjoyed these five transformational team habits, there is so much more waiting for you in Charlie's fantastic new book, Team Habits Dive into it There is really powerful and deep dive, maybe the richest conversation that I've seen in the context of business and belonging and the role of belonging within teams. We just scratched the surface in that first team habit that we talked about today, but it is so powerful and so critical and the conversation around that is literally I think it's necessary reading for every manager and leader and really valuable reading for every person on a team as well. So go check it out. Charlie, as always, great sharing ideas and learning from you and we will see you all back here on the Sparked podcast again next week.

Charlie Gilkey (00:31:44) - Take care. Thanks for having me.

Jonathan Fields (00:31:47) - Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you.

Jonathan Fields (00:31:59) - And if you'd love to share your own moment and question with us, we would love to hear from you. Just go ahead and click on the submissions link in the show notes to get the details on how to do that. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully live, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life, take the time to discover your own personal sparketype for free at Sparketype.com. It'll open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an. Extra second right now to follow and rate sparked in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields. And this is SPARKED.