From Corporate HR Manager to Career Discovery Coach

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:08] And today, we're incredibly excited to be sharing a new feature here on the SPARKED podcast, Career Transformation Stories. So we're inviting guests to share inspiring stories of their career change from reimagining the work that they're currently doing. So it just feels so much more alive to leaving behind unfulfilling jobs. Careers work to find or create new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, meaningful, and joy filled paths. And we're exploring how they're Sparketype has played a role in this journey. It's all about how we transform work into one of the best parts of our lives. So have you ever felt like you were following some predetermined path in your career, only to realize that it was leading you somewhere you just didn't want to go? That relentless pull towards something deeper, something more purposeful became impossible to ignore. If so, then this installment of our career transformation story series will really resonate. It's the story of a woman's profound journey of self-discovery, ditching the corporate treadmill to unearth work that truly sparks her life. Now, quick note you'll hear us mention something we call the Sparketypes in conversation. What is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype when you discover yours. Everything, your entire work life, and even parts of your personal life and relationships, they just begin to make more sense. And until we know ours, we're kind of fumbling in the dark.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:33] And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. So my guest today is Teresa White, and she's a career coach, entrepreneur, and founder who helps professionals gain clarity on finding fulfilling work. But it wasn't that long ago that she found herself trapped in a draining eight year corporate stint, searching for an exit ramp and through a winding path of exploration. From staying home with her newborn during the pandemic to coaching others more organically, she began peeling back layers. She uncovered her resonant path by leaning into innate problem solving talents, allowing her inner scientist primary Sparketype to truly shine. In this candid conversation, you'll hear Teresa's unvarnished reflections on that pivotal career transition, the struggles of trying to force fit herself into roles fundamentally misaligned with her natural energizers, and the profound aha moments that set her free to craft work that deeply resonates. If you've ever felt your career was kind of like trying to swim upstream, join in here. Teresa offers an inspiring example of how to better align with your core driver, that imprint making work feel less like effort and more like actively pursuing your innate curiosities. So let's dive in. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is SPARKED. Art. Hey, and before we dive into today's episode, a quick share. So if you're a coach, a consultant or a leader, and you would just love to stand out more in 2024 and beyond, with a powerful new credential and a set of results driven superpowers, we have got something for you.

Jonathan Fields: [00:03:16] With nearly a million people now discovering their profiles, the Sparketypes have become a global phenomenon. People want their work to light them up, and oftentimes they would love some help along the way, which is why we developed our certified Sparketype advisor training. As a certified advisor, you will discover cutting edge tools that spark profound work life. Client transformations stand out with a highly unique credential and skill set in a crowded market. Find ease and flexibility with templated engagement flows, you'll become a part of a global network of change makers, and you'll rack up 40 ICF continuing education credits, Our fall cohort is enrolling now with visionaries just like you, and we would love to invite you to uplevel your capabilities as a coach or consultant or leader by becoming a certified Sparketype advisor. To learn more about the fall training and see if it's right for you, just click the link in the show notes now or visit sparketype.com. Slash pros. And my curiosity is, was there a story in your mind about work, what it was or wasn't, or the expectations when you were growing up? And if so, I'm curious what it what it might have been.

Theresa White: [00:04:31] That's such an interesting question and something I've never thought about. And both my parents are therapists, so they're both in private practice. So I've never grew up with seeing parents go to an office or be employed. And both my parents really love their work. So I think that and we're so influenced, right, because by the family we grow up in. And I do think that really influenced me of like thinking like, oh, it's normal, that work is enjoyable, and it's normal that you have lots of flexibility and you can make your own schedule. And I think now that you asked that question, when I went into corporate in the beginning of my career, none of that was the case. So while I wasn't aware of that story, in the back of my mind, I do think there is a piece to it. There was like, this is not what I thought work would be like.

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:23] Mhm. I mean, so it sounds like a lot of what, like whatever the story was you had about work when you were younger was less about it sounds like it wasn't really conversations you had with your parents. It was more just what you were observing and how they were actually doing it.

Theresa White: [00:05:35] Yeah, it was more what I was observing. And because my parents never worked in any corporate careers, they've also never been able to advise me on anything or give me ideas. They only knew what they've done, so there were not a lot of conversations around career at all. So yeah, as you said, it was more what I observed of okay, yeah, work will be fun. I'm excited to go to work. I'll be excited to grow up and go to work and do something I enjoy and be my own boss.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:03] I mean, I'm curious also does this does that sort of like in hindsight now, does that land as something which was sort of like a similar story to what your friends were sharing about work or. Um, because I think a lot of times when you grow up in a, in a home like that and sort of like the story that you learn even just through observing is really one about freedom. Um, that's often it's unusual and we don't realize it when we're kids.

Theresa White: [00:06:32] Yeah, I didn't know that. That is unusual. As I grew up, I had a lot of older friends who were already working, and I do think with that, I did see the other side of like, okay, you go to your work that you don't necessarily enjoy for eight hours a day so that you get paid, But even in that space, I actually was a lot of creative people who did a lot of art and sculpturing and had a lot of creative freedom. So even in that instances, I was like, oh my God, this is so fun. Could I just be doing art and sculptures all day? Not that I was talented in that at all, but it just seemed so fun. Yeah, so I really grew up with that idea of work should be enjoyable and and something that fills you.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:14] That's fantastic. So as you were sharing when you finally moved into the world of work, though, it sounds like you went into a corporation or an organization. I'm curious what the early days of that were like for you.

Theresa White: [00:07:28] It was a nightmare. Um, it really was. Um, also, the background on that is I studied sustainability, something I'm really passionate about. But then I had I live in Hawaii and I wanted had met my now husband and really wanted to stay in Hawaii. And it's incredibly hard as an international student to find work. And then there was just nothing in my field. So at that point I was like, okay, I'll just do anything that can get me a visa to stay here. And I ended up at an international transportation company, which was huge misalignment on values. I ended up in customer service with now looking back at it and knowing I'm very process oriented was incredibly draining. Working 50 hours a week. Bad work environment. It could not have been any worse, I think.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:15] Which is amazing because then you contrast that with sort of like what you thought work was seeing, like not just your parents, but also as you were describing your friends, even being able to get in touch with the more creative, artistic side of them. And then you find yourself in this situation, um, but, you know, it's also not unusual, right? Because how many of us took jobs, especially early in our careers because it was satisfying a different need, like you described this sort of like, you know, like you're trying to figure out, how do I how do I be able to stay where I am because I love the place and then be able to actually sustain myself and work. And I feel like that is sometimes we discount that we're like, um, but I think oftentimes it's important to, to actually really tease out the fact that these are real choices and real sort of like things that we have to sometimes make trade offs about. And sometimes you make these choices, hopefully intentionally saying like, it's going to serve a particular need, at least for the moment in time.

Theresa White: [00:09:10] That's a good point. And I see it with the majority of people. I also work with that. Actually, a lot of choices in our career aren't that intentional, because a lot of times we fall into something and that's what happened with me, right? I well, I made the intentional choice. I need an income and I need to a work visa. So those were the two intentional choices. But then I fell into this role and then I was like, okay, now I'm here. I got to make the best out of it and stay in it and grow in it, and didn't really see that there would be so many other opportunities at that time.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:44] Yeah. So how long were you? How long did you keep doing that for?

Theresa White: [00:09:49] Eight years.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:50] Got it. So that's a long time. I'm wondering. That is a long time right over that eight year window. What's happening inside of you? You know, like, what's happening in your mind and that in terms of the way that you're thinking about, like, do I keep going? Do I try something else?

Theresa White: [00:10:05] So during that time, I wrote over 500 job applications. Oh, wow. I didn't really know how the job search job search process worked back then, so none of them were very successful. So I tried to get out and didn't feel like I could. But at the same time I also went through ups and downs. So the company I was with, they were really big about promoting internally, so they did give you a lot of opportunities to grow, and that was something that was exciting to me. Even the work itself wasn't so, but I got promoted every nine months to a year, and every time I got promoted and I can this very much explain this with my Sparketype. Now then I got promoted. There were new things to figure out, and even though the work I didn't love. But I was like, okay, I got to figure out this new role. I have all these new responsibilities. This is exciting. And then shortly thereafter, another low hit, and I was like, oh my God, I just don't want to do this anymore. I'm miserable. I'm dreading my life. I don't have any energy left for anything outside to enjoy. And then I was in this low and then another opportunity popped up internally. I'm like, oh, okay. If I get that, maybe it gets better. And I went through the cycle, I don't know how many times, probably 7 or 8 times throughout my career. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:11:20] I mean, it is interesting also to be working in a company where there are where they actually do regularly offer you opportunities to grow or to change or to do new things, because sometimes like that doesn't exist for people. You just kind of. Yeah. And they feel really stuck. Um, so you mentioned your Sparketype, um, and how that was a part of probably eventually, on the one hand, what what led you out, but also in a kind of a weird way, what kept you there for so long along with these, like, each new opportunity. So take walk me through what your Sparketype profile is and how this was showing up in sort of like this every nine months or so, giving you like a little bit of like what you needed to keep staying.

Theresa White: [00:12:01] Yeah. So, um, obviously at this time I didn't know it, but looking after I took the Sparketype assessment, it was just this huge light bulb moment and I was like, oh, now it all makes sense. So my primary Sparketype is a scientist. I love figuring things out. I love solving problems. It's it couldn't describe me any better. My shadow, the essentialist, is creating order out of chaos. And it's so true that I'm really good at creating order out of chaos, but it doesn't light me up the same way as the scientist does. But I do use it in order to solve problems. So when there is just an overwhelming amount of information or data. I'm really good at sorting through all of this in my head so that I can then figure things out. And I think that those two are obviously very process driven Sparketypes. And that also explains so much in my career of why I enjoy the process driven times. So I worked from customer service then into recruiting. All very service driven fields. Um, but the moments that I look back that were the funnest was I? One day I created an Excel sheet that had like a really, um, this. God, I don't even know how to call it anymore. Like with different formulas that helped us expedite all our reports. Funnest project, probably of my career there. Um, so yeah, the process driven work, the moment I can figure things out. Those were the fun moments and the service driven work was a heavy lift. Not that I didn't enjoy helping people or cared about them, right, but it just left me feeling really drained.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:37] Mhm. So it kind of kept you going because you had enough of a taste of it. So you're like it would bring you back in and bring you back. Bring you. So then take me to your eight years in. What. What makes you decide okay. It's time to actually make a bigger change.

Theresa White: [00:13:53] So at that point, I wasn't recruiting, so I had my I worked my way to the recruiting and recruiting again, started in that same pattern of like I got into this new role. It was so exciting because the recruiting process was such a mess and I was came in essentially cleaning all it up, scientists, figuring out how can we make this better? But then you get into this, then it's all great. The process works, it's smooth. It's almost perfect. Um, and then it's about maintaining this. And that's where I got, like, really hard for me again, like in all previous roles. And then also the work environment wasn't the best or not the best match for me. And then I think actually when the ball dropped, was that because I'm so process driven and I made all those processes so smooth, that helped me really have a much higher level of performance than previous recruiters in that role, which also meant that I made a lot more money because I was in a commission based role, and instead of anyone seeing the hard work I was putting in or how much my performance has improved the recruiting process, they were just like, oh, you're making too much money.

Theresa White: [00:15:06] We need to give you a pay cut. And that was kind of the the that's when the ball dropped. I was like, I cannot do this anymore. Um, same week I think I got pregnant. So I was like, okay, I need to stay here for my pregnancy. Um, but I don't know if I can come back after I have my child. And then my first daughter was born, and I was home with her for three months, and that was really the sign. Like, once you remove yourself and have that little bit of clearer objective view. And I was like, I cannot go back into a role where I work 50 hours a week and get home so drained that there's nothing left of me. And so it wasn't just the hours of work I would have spent there, but also how they impact me that I just on the weekends I was. There was nothing no energy left for anything. Mhm. That made me think I just cannot go back there. And then I decided to stay home with my daughter. Initially I wanted to stay home for a year, but then the pandemic hit and things changed.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:05] Yeah. I mean it's so interesting also the way you described when you were doing your job and you sort of like you start doing like you you're wearing the scientist, an essentialist hat, which is all about figuring out things, problem solving and then streamlining. And that makes you so much more efficient and effective that it affects your pay in a level where you're actually, if you're commission based or like you're performance based. Now, you're all of a sudden earning more than anyone before you in that role. And then rather than the culture of the company saying, this is so fantastic. Like what you've done is amazing. Of course, like it's worth it. You know, like you're if you're performing at a level where, like, you know, then you're entitled to this, that you're effectively punished for figuring out these things and doing things that made the performance on a level, um, which is in a weird way, I feel like I've seen that pattern happen to so many different people in so many different organizations where, you know, you would think the exact opposite would happen because you're kind of doing everything they're asking you to do and at the highest possible level. But then people sort of backtrack from the value associations that they have with that. So that must have been just incredibly frustrating to to experience that.

Theresa White: [00:17:20] Yeah, that was it was really heartbreaking because you that part of the work I loved, and I agree that I've also had other conversations with people who faced similar situations. And I felt like this our Sparketype. What I'm noticing is that when you actually do the work of your Sparketype, but then that isn't appreciated or recognized or rewarded and even punished that is so painful. It's like, okay, I figured this out. It's so much better now. And then everyone's like, well, you're getting a pay cut. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:53] So you find yourself at home and then the pandemic hits and you're sort of like looking and saying like, okay, so what's my next move here? So. So take me there. What what happens.

Theresa White: [00:18:06] So yeah, I came out of recruiting. So it's kind of natural that people, friends, family always reach out and be like, hey, can you look over my resume or and then the pandemic, right. A lot of people, a lot of layoffs or people lost their work or were home for the time being. And so I just had a lot of people reaching out to me for help with career related questions. Interview. In preparing for an interview, updating the resume, all of that. And I leaned into like, okay, I'm good at that so I can help people with that. And somehow I then learned about career coaching. I'm like, oh, this is kind of what I'm doing right now. Just helping people, not charging for it, but just helping people. So why don't I do more of that? I'm home with my daughter anyway, so that is something that I can do. While I don't have full time employment and probably can't get back into full time employment because we have the pandemic, we didn't feel safe putting our one year old in in daycare at that point. Um, so that naturally evolved.

Theresa White: [00:19:06] And I started posting on LinkedIn, got a handful of clients. So that was I can even now, looking back, there was like a big external shift in my career and then a big internal shift. So the external shift was I went from recruiting to staying home to then getting into the career coaching somewhat organically, and then after a while, more intentionally. And of course, there are moments that I had really enjoyed that work of like, oh, let me figure out how we can update your resume, or can we figure out how to make this better? But again, I'm in a role again, that's very, very service driven. And even though I loved what I was doing and I had the flexibility and the freedom of entrepreneurship, in the back of my mind, there was still always that question of like, somehow this still, isn't it? Mm. I do love that I can finally be my own boss and make my own decisions, and I get to help people. But something is missing, and I cannot put my finger to what it is.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:05] So where do you go from there?

Theresa White: [00:20:08] A lot of the clients that I started getting were the ones that didn't know what they wanted to do next in their career, and I think that's where my scientist mind kicked in. I was like, there has to be a way to figure this out for them. There has to be a way. And that's really the question that I got somewhat obsessed with of like how? And also because I'm in the same position, like how can we figure this out? What fulfills us and what is meaningful and still like meets our external needs of having an income and a career. And then I got really interested in all these different assessments and different ways to help people figure things, figure out what they could do next or where they where they are experiences applies. Um, but really the the biggest change then was when I came across the Sparketype assessment that was for me all of a sudden like, okay, now everything makes sense. And then I could also put words to it of, okay, the moments when I'm in a coaching session where I can help people figure out this question, I'm so alive. If I can help someone figure out how to put that puzzle together of all these pieces of their experience and their skills and their strengths and the their education and everything that they bring, and how can we put this puzzle together to figure out what is what would really be fulfilling and make you happy and bring you joy and meet all those criteria. And so those coaching sessions are even though they're service driven work, they are just 100% my scientist brain and I come alive doing it. And once I realized that and then over time, allowed myself to lean more into that type of coaching, since then, I've just been so fulfilled and happy in my work.

Jonathan Fields: [00:21:47] Mhm. I mean, it's so interesting, right? It's the because I think a lot of people would hear something like coaching or then even career coaching and feel like, well, career coaching is like a very specific thing. But what it sounds like you realize is that even within just that one sort of like name of like a career coach, there are very there are different ways, there are different problems, there are different types of clients, different moments. And even within that, there is much more precision in terms of the type of client, the type of question they're asking, the type of outcome that they were looking for that were much more aligned with who you are and what you wanted to do. Even under that bigger umbrella of career coach, there was something even more narrow that when you found it, you're like, ooh, okay, this. I want more of that. Yes.

Theresa White: [00:22:31] Yes. It's like. And it won't run dry. There will always be people searching for how can I find more fulfilling work? And you know that better than anyone. So it really feels that gives me a space where I feel like there will be endless figuring out to do, and it will keep me happy for a long time.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:51] Yeah, no. We are. Those questions are going to be with people for a long time and we go through it. Like, I feel like so often we go through seasons of our life where we keep we drop back into that same question and we're like, you know, the last 15, 20 years I've been doing this thing and now but I've changed. My values have changed, my circumstances have changed. Um, so it's something where I would even imagine, like, if you do this long enough that that clients that you're working with, like a decade ago would cycle back and say, okay, it's sort of like it's time for the next the next pass through. Let's do this.

Theresa White: [00:23:23] Yeah. I even see that now as clients after three years. Oh, wow. Well, one client who I worked with three years ago and she just has a lot of external things changed in her life that impacted what her needs are. And she's like, okay, what was right for me three years ago isn't right for me anymore. So what is so yeah, you're right. It's it does change as we change.

Jonathan Fields: [00:23:48] Yeah. When you think about the work that you're doing right now, what's really important to you about about that work and about what you're doing?

Theresa White: [00:23:59] So there's things that are really important for me personally. And then there's also the impact I'm having. So for me personally, it is the freedom and the flexibility of being an entrepreneur that that just makes life as a family so much easier. And also having the freedom and the flexibility to work the way I want to work, the way my brain works. There is no one else telling me, don't figure this out. We don't need you to figure this out or we don't need you to you. We need you to organize it. And if I find this is important and I want to do it, I get to do it. So for me, it's both the freedom and the flexibility in doing the work, but also how to structure the work. And then the impact is so rewarding of helping people gain more clarity about what they truly want in their professional life and how to actually find it, and that that is possible. And there is a way for them to be more fulfilled. And that obviously is incredibly rewarding to see and to be part of.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:03] Mhm. When when you look back over the window of time that you spent sort of like working in an organization in the last number of years now where you've been doing this and slowly building into what feels really rewarding to you. Now, when you look back at that, is is there anything stand out to you that you look at and you're like, oh, like knowing what I know now, I would have done. I would have done something differently.

Theresa White: [00:25:27] Yes. Um, knowing what I know now, I mean, I think I have to go back as far as my education, but then I also think if I would have studied something different, it might not have led me to where I am today. So then I'm glad that I took that route. But. So I have two master's degrees. One is in philosophy and one is in sustainability. So and I think I would have made different choices. Philosophy I think I was drawn to because of the broad, big, broad questions, but there's really no actual figuring things out. You're only in that question space. And that wasn't fulfilling for me. And then I studied sustainability, which I was really passionate or I'm still very passionate about. And there were there are There so much to figure out. But then I couldn't get into in a role where that would have allowed me to make an impact in that space, and sometimes also that problem and that question just seems so overwhelming big that it feels lost. Where do we even start? And then my auntie is the advocate. So I think that also played a role where there are certain parts of that that didn't come naturally to me. So I think looking back, I might have studied something more, um, that there was more figuring out to do. I mean, a couple of years I thought like, oh, I should have studied math or statistics, but now and now I'm really into behavioral economics. So I'm like, maybe behavioral economics would have been right to like, figure things out in that space. Um, but I don't know what my life would have looked like if I made a different choice back then.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:56] Yeah, it is such an interesting question. Right? Because sometimes we're like, oh, like, I could see clear things that would have done differently. But if you're pretty, if you're pretty good with where you are right now, just as a human being or more broadly in life, it's kind of like. But it would have. I wouldn't be in this same place. And I kind of like this now. So whatever struggles or whatever tangents, it sent me down, like I found my way back to where I am now and I'm good. It's it's interesting to reflect on that as we wrap up any final sort of words of wisdom you might offer for our community.

Theresa White: [00:27:28] Before we get there? Can I ask you one question? Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:31] Of course.

Theresa White: [00:27:32] Um, I was super curious about something about the advocate, my anti. Yeah. And I was wondering, does the. So I can sense that advocating doesn't come naturally to me. I much rather if I instead of advocating I figure out what the problem is and solve try to solve it. But I just had a conversation with someone else who had the advocate as the anti, and they said the heaviest lift for me is advocating for myself. Mhm. And that I was like whoa I never thought about that. Have you seen that or does that. That that advocating for yourself is also part of the anti advocate Draining. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:09] 100%. It's it's not just for other ideas or ideals or individuals or communities. It's often, you know, advocating for yourself, for your own self-worth, for your own ideas, for your own value, for your own merit. You know, like, I've earned this, you know, like I'm up for a job or like there's something. And yeah, I mean, it definitely can be a part of it. And I think sometimes it's, you know, somebody genuinely has the advocate as their anti Sparketype, which for those listening, if you don't know the anti Sparketype is generally it's the type of thing that's the heaviest lift requires the greatest amount of energy. And then sometimes I mean the interesting thing there is, is also sometimes you want to tease out a little bit more, is this genuinely somebody's anti Sparketype or is there some other conditioning that has happened throughout their life or through childhood experiences? There are. I know people I've had conversations with people that grew up in households where there was there was trauma in the household, and they found that the safest thing for them was to make themselves invisible. So there was a there's an environmental stimulus for them when they were kids to not advocate for themselves or for anything or for anyone. They just wanted to be invisible. And that tracked, that followed them through, you know, like to adults. So the interesting thing to tease out, I think often when you're talking to somebody like that is, is this more of sort of like a natural impulse, or is it more of a behavioral response to something that may have happened earlier in life that just has never been explored or processed in a in a constructive way? Does that make sense?

Theresa White: [00:29:48] Oh, 100% I that resonates with me so much, I think I finally, I finally fully understood my anti sparketype cool. Um, because it was always I somewhat related to it. But yes, The the way you described it, of growing up in a way that you weren't allowed to advocate for yourself or that had negative psychological consequences or even trauma is 100% true for me. And now I'm going to be thinking about is that is my anti Sparketype. Is that a result of me growing up, or is that really that innate impulse that's such a heavy lift? Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:29] And sometimes it's not an either or thing. It's a yes. And you know, like these things really play into each other. People are complex, which is another fun puzzle to try and unwind, especially for your scientist.

Theresa White: [00:30:39] Yes. Oh, I'm going to be thinking about this question for the rest of the day.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:44] Awesome. So, so share, um, final words of wisdom from you.

Theresa White: [00:30:49] My final words of wisdom is really to, well, first discover what sparks you and allow yourself to lean into it. I think our society can condition us so much of all the things we should do or what the right path is, or all these expectations that we sometimes don't allow ourselves to do something that would be more fulfilling or joyful, and giving yourself the permission of leaning into it and finding a path and a small shift, or a larger shift in your work or in your life, whatever it is that works for you at that time. But being aware of what energizes and sparks you and giving yourself the permission to do more of that.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:29] Mhm. Thank you.

Theresa White: [00:31:31] Thank you Jonathan.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:35] And if you'd like to share your career transformation story on the SPARKED podcast, to inspire others to maybe feel less stuck or unsure about their own career paths, we encourage you to apply to be a guest and check out the form in the show notes, because we believe that everyone deserves to find fulfillment and purpose in their work. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.