From Corporate Leader to Professional Organizer

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:12] And today, we're incredibly excited to be sharing a new feature here on the Spark Podcast Career Transformation Stories. So we're inviting guests to share inspiring stories of their career change from reimagining the work that they're currently doing. So it just feels so much more alive to leaving behind unfulfilling jobs. Careers work to find or create new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, meaningful, and joy filled paths. And we're exploring how they're Sparketype has played a role in this journey. It's all about how we transform work into one of the best parts of our lives. So next up, we're diving into a powerful story of self-discovery and reinvention, one woman's journey from the high stakes world of corporate law and business to a life aligned with her true callings as an advisor and maven. Now quick note you'll hear us mention something we call the Sparketypes in conversation. What is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype. When you discover yours, everything, your entire work life, and even parts of your personal life and relationships, they just begin to make more sense. And until we know ours, we're kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. My guest today is Monica Parker, a former lawyer, leader and people developer in big companies who is now a professional organizer. Despite early success and prestige in her business career, Monica felt this persistent yearning for a more meaningful, transformative approach to work.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:45] And through profound life experiences, including a near-death encounter which she talks about, Monica summoned the courage to really start listening to her heart's callings. And this led to an uncharted journey of self-discovery, one that revealed her Sparketypes, her primary being an advisor, shadow as maven and anti as advocate. And you'll hear the crucial role these revelations played in Monica's really powerful pivot from leading people and developing people in a corporate setting, to combining her natural mentoring gifts with the KonMari organizing philosophy. And in her current path, she's able to directly witness just profound growth as clients purge possessions that no longer spark joy. It's an inspiring example of overcoming fear and societal conditioning, and really honoring your true intrinsic drive to craft a life in alignment with who you are. Excited to share Monica's story with you! I'm Jonathan Fields and this is spark. What I found is a fun starting point for these conversations is really just a single question that I've been kind of like opening most of them with, which is a curiosity. And I don't think I've actually ever asked you about this. I'm always curious, like whether there was a story in your mind, in your head about work, what it was, what it isn't, what it should or shouldn't be, or what expectations were around work when you were a kid, when you were growing up?

Monica Parker: [00:03:19] Yeah, I think that's absolutely the case for me. I think I saw work is work, right? Work as distinguished from play. I also saw work, as you know, whatever it is you do like, there's it has to you can make a living at it and you can make a good living at it. But whether you can make a good living at it and enjoy or be engaged by what you do, that was a really hard connection for me. Work was I saw work in its very kind of traditional sense of you have a career. It's something you can be proud of. You work hard, you make a good living. But there wasn't that wasn't really infused at all with joy or passion or even curiosity. So it was a there's a bit of a there's always been a bit of a tension there for me. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:00] So it was more of like a have to do than a oh, this is really awesome. I can't wait to do it.

Monica Parker: [00:04:05] Absolutely. That is that was my experience of work growing up. And then even once I went into the workforce myself, although while I was wrestling with that, I was also like looking for ways to infuse it with something more than just that traditional notion of work. Because I think instinctively I understood that for me, it was going to be really important that it be more than just a job.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:26] Yeah. So you and I share something in common, which is that we both ended up in law school.

Monica Parker: [00:04:32] Lucky us.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:34] And it's it's so, like, far in my rear view mirror. It's like I can barely remember the hot minute that I spent my in that career, which for me was about five years. I'm trying to remember. Did you actually practice coming out of school or did you go sort of like straight into business?

Monica Parker: [00:04:49] I practiced also and for about five years. So. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:53] What was the what was the draw to law in the beginning?

Monica Parker: [00:04:58] Oh. Oh, boy. This is a little embarrassing. Um, I think I saw a career as, again, having very traditional options. You could either go to law school or you could go to medical school, or you could go to business school. And I didn't want to go to medical school. My dad is a retired medical doctor and OB-GYN, and I knew I didn't want to practice medicine and business. Maybe that was an interest, but law seemed like that could be a good fit for me. When I talk to folks who've been to law school, they're like, oh, I think you'll enjoy the intellectual stimulation of it. Not to mention you can do so many different things with the law degree. So even if you decide you don't want to practice, you're going to be able to use your degree. And so based on that very limited information, I decided to go to law school. And I will say there was a telling moment very early on after I got into law school. I was I remember sitting on my parents couch and got in the course catalog, and I was flipping through it and I was thinking, boring.

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:56] Boring, boring like before the first class even. Not a good moment.

Monica Parker: [00:06:02] I thought, oh, I don't I don't know how this is going to go.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:07] That's so interesting. I, I had a bit of a different experience. I, I actually was the weirdo who loved I really enjoyed law school. It was brutal. It was grueling. It dropped to my knees and kind of like, you know, thankfully I figured out how to get back up from them. But I did like a lot of the the sort of like intense intellectual exploration. Then when I went out into the world of practice, I was like, oh, this is very different. It is so for you when you started, when you sort of like, make it through school and you're out in the world practicing what's going through your head?

Monica Parker: [00:06:40] Well, so I had an interesting trajectory because to your point, I went to law school. I think of it as more of a default option. I option. I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I went to law school, which there are a lot of us like that. Once I was there, I did find a class that I really enjoyed. I ended up getting into a negotiation workshop class. I love that class, became a teaching assistant for the class, and then began to work with some of my some of the faculty in some of their consulting gigs around negotiation, managing difficult conversations, conflict resolution. So when I was in the process of finishing up, I was actually torn between going to practice or doing some work with these colleagues. I ultimately decided to go practice. I thought, well, I just got this degree, let me go pass the bar and let me practice because this is the right time to do that. It's going to be hard to go back to that. If I ever decide that, that's what I want to do. With that being said, once I got into the practice, I realized very quickly that it wasn't engaging for me and I had an opportunity. I'd been practicing for just a few months And I'm an alum of Harvard Law. And I got a call from Harvard Law asking if I wanted to come back and be a lecturer on law to teach the negotiation workshop. And I had a conversation with the managing partner at the firm where I was an associate who was all for it. So I made the decision to leave after, I think it was even less than a year, Jonathan, of practice to go back and do this lectureship.

Monica Parker: [00:08:08] It was over winter term, so it was for just a month. And then I thought, well, this if I'm doing this now, then this is the time to pursue this conflict resolution work. While this lectureship is kind of fresh in people's minds. So I spent a couple of years doing that work, traveling to different kinds of organizations, providing workshops on negotiation, managing difficult conversations in the US and overseas. But then I think the combination of travel and sort of the maybe the what felt like the rote nature of doing the training got to me. And I thought, you know you know what? I'm not sure. I gave practicing law a fair shot. So I did a little bit more, I'd say research than I did when I went to law school. I talked to folks in different kinds of practices. I talked to people who were working in, um, boutiques versus large law firms, and ultimately decided to join a boutique law firm. I'd come from a large law firm. I shifted from litigation to the transactional side and ended up working at this boutique for four years there, too. Eventually, I came to the realization that as much as I liked the firm, I liked the people, which was the case at both firms, really. But the nature of the work itself wasn't engaging for me specifically, and I was. I found myself getting drawn into more of the people issues, um, at both of these firms, and I thought that was telling. So, yeah, that was my experience of of practice.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:32] It is it's so interesting. Right. When you sort of like, have that realization. Um, I actually started out at the SEC, so like massive government bureaucracy worked there, and then went to a giant firm in New York and spent a year doing transaction and deal work there for a really similar reason. I did my time at the SEC, and every day I was kind of like, you know, this, this isn't really it. Like, I kind of know this, isn't it? But I also had a bit of the sunk cost fallacy, even though it was very early in my career. I was like, I just spent three years and a lot of money on my degree, and I have a job that a lot of people would like. You know, it's and how can I just walk away? So it was like, maybe I just need to change the setting or the context, but stay in the field. So I did a similar thing. I go to like a private firm and I'm doing, you know, different work, completely different culture. And about a year into I was like, you know what? It's just not it's not it. And started to really explore different things. So when you awaken to the fact that, like, so much of your energy was really being focused on people development, it sounds like that becomes a catalyst, to a certain extent, to send you out of the law and really explore. How do I continue to develop people to explore leadership in different contexts outside of this field? I mean, talk me through this transition a bit.

Monica Parker: [00:10:50] Yeah, it was a really interesting time because I was I'd reached the, you know, for real. Now I've decided that the practice of law is is not for me. What am I going to do next? A couple of things happened. I'd say it was a confluence of events. So the first thing that happened is I was. And this is random. I was in an airport. I think it was in Canada. I'd gone there for a wedding. We're in the airport after the wedding. Headed back to Atlanta. There's a kiosk with books, and there's a book about the coaching profession. I think it was, um, called Life Makeovers by Sheryl Richardson and Sheryl Richardson. You know, was getting big. I think she may have been featured on Oprah by then. I'm not sure. But this book, I was like, oh, what's this? And I picked it up and purchased it, of course. And then I'm reading the book. I'm like, this is a profession. Like there's a profession called coaching. What? Like I was so excited. So then I started researching this profession. At the time, I think there were only two coaching schools, um, CTI and coach U. And so I started researching the programs that those two schools offered. Got super excited about this. I started doing informational interviewing with coaches. As you can tell by this point, my process for career research had changed drastically from I think this is probably what I should do to let me explore this a bit more in depth and really fell in love with coaching. Hired a coach for myself. So that was happening. The other thing that wasn't related specifically to career is that I had a near death experience, and after that happened, my brain shifted into the mode of what am I doing? I've got a limited time on Earth.

Monica Parker: [00:12:34] Fortunately, I get to stay a bit longer. You know, I survived that experience, but I want to. I want this to be meaningful for me. There was a shift from, I'm I'm doing this work or this career because this is what you're supposed to do. This will give you a certain amount of prestige or status or whatever. Shifting more into the mode of yes, I need to make a living and I want to make a good living, but I also want to have an impact, and I want to have the kind of impact that I personally want to have. So you put those things together? Um, I decided that I was going to pursue coaching. And what's interesting about that, Jonathan, is that back then you could and you still can do this now, of course, but back then you could just start coaching. You know, you didn't need a certification. I had started taking some of the core curriculum at CTI by that point, but I started taking that curriculum. But the instructors were always so encouraging when I'd say, oh, well, I know I have to finish the core curriculum and do my certification. No you don't. You start coaching. That's what you do. I remember trying to bring one of them a client and she was like, why don't you take this client? I'm like, well, because I have, you know, lawyers, right? You go to law school, right? You graduate, you pass the bar, and then you can do something. She's like, no, this is not law school. Like get started. And so that's how I began my my career in coaching. And I worked primarily with other lawyers like me who didn't want to practice but weren't sure what they wanted to do.

Jonathan Fields: [00:14:01] Right. It is so interesting. Right. Um, I've ended up talking to a lot of of lawyers and former lawyers over the years, too, who are exploring, you know, like, what if I move out? What do I do? And there's a I don't know if you've experienced this, but I've found a really interesting, um, struggle point for a lot of folks who have training in law to then move into something that has any element of entrepreneurship in it, and that's that. Like, we are so trained to look for and anticipate everything that could that could possibly go wrong, and then devote all of our energy to trying to do everything possible to prevent it. Or, you know, like make sure you're covered should it go wrong. And it's kind of the exact opposite mindset that you need when you're starting your own thing, where you just have to believe relentlessly in possibility. And I've seen that be a struggle for a lot of people. It's not just law, but people who sort of like, are trained to identify every potential problem, everything that could go wrong and spend and really invest in protecting against it. This is this is a certain amount of finance and accounting as well. I'm wondering if, like, there was a little voice in your head that spoke to that at all when you were sort of like stepping into your own thing?

Monica Parker: [00:15:11] Absolutely. Um, back then, and I'm sure they use the same parlance now, but CTI referred to it as the Gremlin, right? Or the Gremlins. That committee, my committee had a lot to say. And, you know, that's sort of the the flip side of being trained as a lawyer, right? The benefit is you are able to assess what could possibly go wrong and help your client with that when it comes to your own life and making a career shift and also starting your own practice or business. It is really difficult because that voice is really loud. I think what probably helped me the most is having a coach myself, because then she could help me identify what are the risks I need to help mitigate, versus what are the unknowns that I can't possibly control for. And I think, too, I probably learned a lot about that in the process of working with my own clients. Not not that all of them wanted to be entrepreneurial necessarily, but they were all taking some leap of faith and all finding that really challenging. And so seeing their struggles as I was experiencing my transition, I think was super helpful. And recognizing that I think I will say something else that drove me is the concept of what's what is the worst that could happen. So if I look at the worst case scenario, I don't make money doing this. You know, people don't want to hire me. The worst case scenario is I go get a job. So if that's the worst case scenario, then perhaps it's worth it to explore this. So taking it sort of as far as you can. I had one client once who told me that her worst case scenario, she was interested in shifting from practicing law to film making. And her in her mind. She painted this very vivid portrait of not having any money. So having to panhandle in the New York subway system where she lived wearing a cut off Flashdance sweatshirt. I don't have any idea how that got to the story, but i was like, well, that's quite colorful.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:11] So all right. That is. Yeah, that's a graphic sort of like doomsday scenario right there. So but but that's where our brains go so often, you know, like we go to the doomsday scenario and then we make it as vivid and visual and sensory as we can. Then we hit spin rather than saying but what about the potential success scenario? Like, why don't we actually go and we're so wired for sort of like negativity and to prevent that from happening. And then our brains, once we once we get a really clear vision of that and then we, we keep recycling it, it becomes what we believe to be like the inevitable truth. Rather than saying, let's create an equally vivid opposite scenario and keep recycling that too. So our brains can have that as a, as a real, a real possibility to counter it with. But so often we need somebody else to really help us get there. Like because it's not a, it's not a default setting for most of us.

Monica Parker: [00:18:03] It's not especially for lawyers. And that is where my coach was really helpful. We spent some time with me being in a quiet, kind of contemplative, meditative state, you know, as a part of homework assignments, having a journal and just envisioning what I wanted my life to look like, what I wanted my ideal life to look like, my ideal work. And there was a lot of, again, wrestling with those gremlins as I was doing it. But when I was able to quiet and calm my mind, this vision did eventually emerge. And to your point, my coach had me create. I remember a vision board at the time. I had quotes that I could put that were that were near me on my desk so I could see them if I started feeling panicky, you know, taking the time to do some deep breathing and try to bring back to mind this vision and and embodying it, experiencing it like feeling it in my body. Um, and I think that to your point, those are some of the, the mechanisms that help me to counter that, that negativity that, as you so well described, is just the norm. It's just sort of the default. And that's that groove in the brain. It goes down. I do think that by virtue of doing some of these other things that focused on what what could happen on the good side, I was, I was building like a new track or a new groove to be able to have my brain follow on that path.

Jonathan Fields: [00:19:24] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you start to to move into the world of more advising and people development. Um, my recollection is also you're also in and out of organizations through this. Um, so, you know, some of it's on your own, some of it is playing certain roles, leadership roles, consulting roles, people development roles in companies along the way. So you're sort of developing multiple tracks at once, which is a pretty common experience these days. A lot of people have sort of like their main gig. Um, and then they have the things that they do on the side. And oftentimes, you know, like they they're not even all that interested in giving one up. It's just like, this is actually a comfortable balance for a lot of folks. Eventually you get to a point. And I kind of love this story. Um, not too long ago, as we have this conversation right now, you are still doing some coaching, but a lot of your energy is going to something that looks very different from the outside looking in. And I guess the Sparketypes played an interesting role in sort of like serving as a wake up call and then also eventually giving you a toolset to realize that you actually didn't really want to work with them the way that you thought you did and leading you in a different direction. So talk me through this. I think it's a great story.

Monica Parker: [00:20:38] Yeah. Um, yeah.Definitely an interesting set of circumstances. So I loved Sparketype for helping me get clear about my primary, my shadow, my ante. And for me, that's, um, advisor is my primary maven is my shadow. And then, um, advocate is my ante.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:59] And just for those for those sort of like listening in who aren't familiar with this, the advisor is an impulse which is all about guiding people through a process of growth. The Maven is all about just a deep love and passion for learning, for knowledge acquisition. And those are sort of like the two primary impulses and the anti-suicide which we we offer as well. This tends to be the type of work that's the heaviest lift for for you, for whatever reason it may be for you. This was the advocate, which is often about sort of like championing ideas, ideals, communities, individuals. Okay, so let's drop back into your story.

Monica Parker: [00:21:34] So I am based on that. I had actually made a transition. So just as a little bit of context, um, prior to making the transition, I was working at a large law firm as its director of diversity and inclusion. So after taking the assessment, I realized something profound, which was that the nature of my work was very much loaded heavily towards my anti. I mean, by nature, Dei work is about advocating for a population being their champion. With that being said, I do just want to clarify. I don't see that meaning that you can't do Dei work if your anti is advocate. There's just I think a certain way you need to be doing that work. I think if I had been focusing more on the on the consulting coaching training side. That could have been a.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:18] Yeah, it's a route. It's more about the mode, like the way that you step into that role. It's more about how you do it, rather than the fact that you can or can't do any particular role. Yeah.

Monica Parker: [00:22:27] That's right. And this role was just designed in such a way that was the primary focus is the championing piece. So I had been toying with the idea of going back into the world of self-employment and discovered Sparketype and the certification process, and fell in love with it. I don't think anyone surprised I'm a maven. There was so much to learn in that program. It was fantastic. So I really enjoyed that deep dive and decided I would do a reboot of my career coaching practice. As I mentioned previously, I was working with lawyers who didn't want to practice but weren't sure what they wanted to do. At this stage of my life, I thought I might focus more on women in midlife who were trying to make some kind of a career pivot, so I did leave my job. I launched my career coaching practice, got started working with clients, wonderful women who were making some really, I think, intriguing transitions. And then I noticed that my energy wasn't quite where I wanted it to be. And I will tell you, Jonathan, at first I was really worried because I thought, wait a minute. I mean, I've sort of done all the things you're supposed to do. You know, I not only did I take the assessment and, you know, sort of do the work, like, I actually know this as a coach.

Monica Parker: [00:23:38] Like what? What's happening here? And I realized that there was something else that had been on the back burner that was calling to me at this point. And again, this is where that, you know, time to sit and reflect, meditate and and think these things through is really helpful. I prior to getting my certification in Sparketype, I'd gotten a certification in KonMari consulting. So KonMari Consulting is Marie Kondo's method of professional organizing. She's known as a tidying expert, wrote a wonderful book called the called The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up, among other books. She has a show on Netflix. So this worldwide phenomenon and I had just found myself intrigued by her methodology and done a tidying festival for myself and decided I would. I would take this program and went through the course and worked with practice clients, got my certification and then I put it back over to the side. I think that was not I think I know that was because I thought, how is this going to look? I mean, Monica, you've already made some wacky shifts. I mean, you went from lawyer to coach. That's more respectable now. So that's fine. But now you're saying professional organizer. Like, how does that work? And I think I just hit it's not a breaking point. I just hit a point of of thinking. Well, again, I've got a limited amount of time on Earth.

Monica Parker: [00:25:03] This is something that matters to me. I think it's something that can be helpful. I think it's actually going to involve a lot of the coaching components, but it's going to be doing it in a different way. I want I want to explore this. I want to try to build it. If I think about this now, in retrospect, there was something really appealing to me about being able to see the finished product. Like from the start, someone's home, you know, lots of clutter needing help, and then sort of seeing that final end result where the home is decluttered, organized. Something about the visual nature of that, as well as the hands on physical nature of it, I think was very appealing to me. But then to be able to marry that with the personal transformation aspects of the work, it sort of put me in my sweet spot of those things. And so I quietly shuttered my career coaching practice, um, and then began to work with clients who wanted to use the KonMari method. And to your point, I still had and actually still do have some coaching career coaching clients that I'm working with. What I love, though, is when I let those clients know what I was doing. One of them actually hired me to do KonMari consulting with her as well.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:15] Not not surprisingly at all. I love this right on so many different levels. You know you've won. You felt this sort of like pang that said, almost like like again, like I'm and like, what am I going to think of myself? What are other people going to think of myself? Um, maybe that's an overlay for me, but that was like what spun through my mind a number of times when I made big changes. But then you went back to in the beginning of our conversation, you know, like that near-death experience where you kind of came out of it and said, you know, like, I got one shot at this and I really want to do the thing that I want to do. And impact was making a real difference was a big part of what you shared drives you. What's so fascinating about you choosing organizing? Clearly just on a sort of like the topic, the the area of organizing. There's something in your brain that says, this is really interesting to me. Like there's something really cool about this process. As an advisor, you absolutely get to show up and walk beside somebody as you guide them through a process that is not just about organizing their space, it's also about it's an internal transformation, too. And I think a lot of people don't really realize that, you know, this is a huge growth experience for so many people who are going through it. As a maven, you're constantly learning, like you're stepping into new environments all the time and working with new people all the time.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:32] It's like, I got to figure this out. I have to learn everything I need to learn really fast beyond sort of like the core process and what I love. Also like on an impact level about this is that with organizations and tell me if I'm making assumptions here, but it seems to me that people I've known who've been in the space of organizing, like you start at point A, there's a clear point B there's like, this is what it looks and feels like when we have done the thing, and there's a fairly constrained time frame here, it's like we're going to do we're going to go from here to there in this amount of time, and then we're going to be able to step back and look at it and say, job well done. That's a that's a rare thing, I think in a lot of especially consultative or coaching or advising type of experiences, where it tends to kind of be slow growth, meandering like their tangents and trajectories. You don't you don't really know what it's going to look like in advance, and you don't really know when you're going to get there, if ever. But you've been able to, like, create a container that lets you go back to that powerful drive for impact and be able to say this, we did it. We I have made a difference in the work that I'm doing. Does that land?

Monica Parker: [00:28:36] Totally. That's it. Exactly. Um, yeah. And what I love specifically about KonMari is that in the World Professional Organization, there are organizers who will come in and do it for you. Right? That's not what KonMari is. As you said, I'm walking with you side by side as you are going through your things. We start the process by me asking, what's the ideal life you want to live in your space after you tidy up? So this is very much about what's the vision going to be when we finish this? Obviously that's a motivator. That's what's going to draw the person through the process, which is intense and extensive. To your point about the time element, we don't know how much time it will take because that depends on how much stuff someone has, how long it takes them to go through it. But yes, there's very much a container. And that's part of my role, is to help hold the person in this container and walk them through a step by step process. And yeah, that's it. The fact that I can see the the end product, I can see the final result is so gratifying for me and that I was working with the client through that process throughout is incredibly gratifying for me. Excuse me. I think that you're right. While I love coaching and training consulting work, I got to a point where I wasn't able to see that end result. A lot of times with career coaching, sometimes it's possible, you know, but also clients often evolve after the career coaching process is done, there's no guarantee it's all going to happen in that container that you're working with them.

Monica Parker: [00:30:05] So for me, this is just the perfect blend of being able to do that transformational work. And just as you said, of course we are decluttering and organizing your space. But the primary question with the KonMari method is, does this spark joy? So the clients picking up every single item and asking, does it spark joy? By the time you're at the end of this process, they're now living in a space where they're surrounded only by the things that spark joy for them. I'm finding that folks who are drawn to this method tend to be people who are either contemplating a a transformation or a transition, and they're or they are already in transition. So my clients tend to be and I work primarily with women who are either, um, doing a career change or contemplating a career change, going through a divorce, perimenopause, menopause. What's it called? Um, empty nest, potentially Downsizing. And so there they are in the process of envisioning what they want the next chapter of their lives to look like, and they instinctively or intuitively understand that tidying their home is a necessary and often the first step in that process for them. So yeah, I feel really fortunate to be able to tie all those elements together in this work.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:20] Love that. Final question. As you look back at sort of like the arc of where you've been, and I'm sure you have some sense of like inklings of where you might want to head and and you're thinking about it. I'm sure so many people have asked you about your path as well. Is there any sort of, like, any words of wisdom or thoughts or offering of guidance of people who may be sort of like exploring? How do I think about this thing called work in my life?

Monica Parker: [00:31:44] Mm, that's a really good question. I like where we started our conversation, which is how have you. I can't remember exactly how you phrased it, but it's essentially thinking about how you define work. How are you raised to think about work? Where are you now in terms of of your definition of work? Because that's a really important starting point, because otherwise you're sort of struggling against this thing that you haven't actually named. I think that's one thing that's important is to spend some time thinking about that. I do think spending some time in that space, that head space of what your life could be like if your work was what you wanted it to be. I don't mean the actual role, but sort of your vision of what your work life could be like. Spending some time in that space, like we've been talking about is critical, because for a lot of folks, at least the ones that I have worked with, they are established in their working identities. And so that becomes a part of who they are. So then it becomes difficult to envision being something else. And then often their family and friends tend to reinforce that, that message. So spending some time in a space and I really just mean a meditative space, like your favorite chair, your cup of tea, your journal, some breathing, whatever it takes. You know, maybe it's a walking meditation. I love doing those, just walking and sort of letting my mind kind of float because these images are going to surface about what you want your work life to be.

Monica Parker: [00:33:08] And capturing those in some way, I think, is really critical, because I think that's like a whispering of your soul, and it can be really hard to hear in the busyness of life, the ping of email, the phone calls, the family and your, um, you know, just life. Um, and so finding those quiet, reflective moments to, to tap into that quiet, still voice inside, I think that's really important. And then the last thing I'd say is you have to find a support network. I think a lot of times, especially lawyers, like, we think we can do everything on our own. Um, and that's where we get stuck. And so recognizing that help is important, whether it's a coach or it's a supportive friend, like a truly supportive friend though if you have a family member who's like that, that's great. That's hard for a lot of people to find. Um, but but someone who can serve in that space of seeing you in this new vision that you have of yourself, who can help reinforce that message, who perhaps can provide resources. But honestly, if there's just someone who believes that this is possible for you, they can be that confidence for you to help bring you over to the other side. So those are some of the things I think, that are helpful.

Jonathan Fields: [00:34:20] Um love that. Thank you so much.

Monica Parker: [00:34:22] Thank you Jonathan.

Jonathan Fields: [00:34:26] And if you'd like to share your career transformation story on the SPARKED podcast, to inspire others to maybe feel less stuck or unsure about their own career paths, we encourage you to apply to be a guest and check out the form in the show notes, because we believe that everyone deserves to find fulfillment and purpose in their work. And remember, if you are at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.