From FinTech Exec to Sexologist & Author

LinkedIn: [00:00:01] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:15] And today, we're incredibly excited to be sharing a new feature here on the SPARKED podcast, Career Transformation Stories. So we're inviting guests to share inspiring stories of their career change from reimagining the work that they're currently doing. So it just feels so much more alive to leaving behind unfulfilling jobs, careers work to find or create new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, meaningful, and joy filled paths. And we're exploring how they're Sparketype has played a role in this journey. It's all about how we transform work into one of the best parts of our lives. Next up, we are diving into the story of a woman who shed the shackles of societal convention and perceived security to boldly pursue her true calling. Today's guest she courageously left behind a successful international career in finance to blaze an unorthodox trail as a pioneering clinical sexologist. Now, quick note you'll hear us mention something we call the Sparketypes in conversation. What is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype when you discover yours. Everything, your entire work life, and even parts of your personal life and relationships, they just begin to make more sense. And until we know ours, we're kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:37] You'll find a link in the show notes. In today's career transformation story, we meet Leah Holtsford and her, a clinical psychologist, author and reality TV host based in Berlin. So Leah spent seven years ascending the ranks in financial services and martech companies, earning an MBA along the way. And yet, a lifelong fascination with the intricacies of human sexuality just refused to be ignored. And throughout years of evening study, she steadily built expertise and a degree in psychology and sexology, letting this curiosity slowly bloom into something bigger and then eventually, mustering profound courage, she took the ultimate leap, resigning from corporate life to launch her own private practice in Berlin. And bringing this daring pivot to life required her to really shed layers of self-doubt and override a deep seated need for financial security instilled from childhood. You'll hear her candid reflections on overcoming these inner obstacles and external pressures to conform, so listen in and discover how she ultimately found the courage to listen to her heart's truest calling. Let's dive in. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is SPARKED. Hey, so I want to let you know about something, especially if you're a coach, consultant, HR pro, or leader through our related research and training organization, Spark Endeavors, we've been developing next generation tools to really help make better, easier, and more confident career decisions like the Sparketype assessment, a powerful tool that helped well over a million people now and has generated over 50 million data points, making it one of the largest studies on work satisfaction in the world.

Jonathan Fields: [00:03:18] And as the Sparketypes have grown into this global phenomenon, coaches and consultants, HR pros and leaders, they began asking us for help unlocking the power of the Sparketype tools and body of work for clients and teams. So a number of years back, we created a professional level training and certification. The certified Sparketype advisor program and enrollment is now open for the April training and for those ICF coaches. This training also provides a whopping 40 continuing education credits. So check out the details, see if it feels right, and apply today to save your spot at Sparketype.com slash pros, or just click the link in the show notes now. I tend to open up these conversations with a similar question. It's a it's a curiosity of mine, which is I'm curious whether when you were a kid, when you were young, or whether there was a story in your mind about work, about what it was or wasn't, or the shoulds, shoulds, expectations, and if so, what was that story?

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:04:23] That's a really good question. No, actually I had no idea in terms of like what my career would plan out to be. Um, I didn't had a typical dream of becoming a ballerina or a star or a doctor or a scientist or anything like that. So. No.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:40] Mhm. So no expectations from family or friends or anything around that. I'm, I guess what I'm getting at is did you have any sense for whether you were expected to look at work or build a career in a particular way, or were you sort of like raised in an environment where it was almost like, you know, the world is your possibility. Do anything that makes you come alive.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:05:03] I guess out of the two, I would say that the latter, definitely. I grew up with a single mom, and so I learned from an early age that women can do anything, which I really, really valued. So I remember that she was actually doing the flooring on the upstairs of our house by herself, because she wanted to have like a specific type of flooring, and she just did that. And, um, so that stuck with me in a way that I knew I could do what I wanted to do. I had the education I was allowed to do, the education that I wanted to do. So I, I had all the options. Um, but for me, actually, security was a really important issue. So, um, being raised by a single parent, the whole money aspect of things and, um, being, uh, being thrown into a world where I didn't really know what I, what I actually wanted to, um, to achieve this aspect of having a job that actually gives me a security, potentially even a security to, um, to help out my mom when I, when I grow up or help my, my siblings. So even though that wasn't at all necessary, but it was like something that I felt deeply within would be my responsibility as the as the oldest child out of three. So yeah, I think that was something that definitely pushed me into that first career choice that I made.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:26] Yeah. So tell me about that first career choice.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:06:28] So the first one was purely security based. So I finished school, um, with about 19. And, um, then we can decide sort of what, what subject to study. So it's always clear which I would study something. Um, and I decided on business, so I did, um, a sort of dual study, um, where you can learn on the job and get a degree at the same time, which I was really proud of back then. It's it's like a special, a special sort of thing. And, um, and then I went on afterwards to do my MBA in Dublin. So it was all laid out, the plan for a career in in business and I did that. I ended up in financial services. I did, I did well, I would say in terms of frequent flyer miles and income brackets and job title and all of that. I was in the martech space, but I think I was like about a year on the job with a company that I would spend up about seven years with in like three different offices across different countries, that I knew this wouldn't be what I, what I actually wanted to do. And so after my MBA, I started with a bachelor's degree again. So it was literally like a month in a job that I decided I would do that. And, um.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:42] So before you go further, I'm curious, what were what were the signs? What what was it that started to tell you that this wasn't the thing?

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:07:49] So, I mean, the most obvious was I just wasn't really happy. I didn't feel there was, um, a lot of purpose in my role. I was very detached from the product. I was responsible for a very I mean, obviously as a junior role after college, you're responsible for like a very small, uh, fraction of the entire process. And I felt it was a it was a very it was a world where you could survive only by using your elbows. So it was a very not sure how to say that in English properly, but it was like a very elbows y environment, we would say. And I did that. I performed that role and I did use my elbows, I did, I did do a sort of that the typical business career thing. But yeah, I was I was lacking purpose. And I always realized, like the stuff that I enjoyed most was sort of like helping the juniors. As I grew in my role and in my my career, helping the juniors come out and sort of informally coaching them, or later becoming team lead or director of certain departments, just helping them grow into, uh, into the role that would would fulfill them most and like teaching them little things or helping them maneuver through, uh, through specific politics or through, uh, difficult client situations.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:09:14] That's really what, uh, what I enjoyed a lot about the job. So this kind of helping people thrive thing. And, um. Yeah. So I knew there was an end to that job eventually, in terms of like that, I knew that I wouldn't want to do that for forever. But on the other side, it was also giving me a lot of rewards. And it was also a, um, an exciting career. Like, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to miss it. Like, I feel like a lot of the, the skills that are important now, I learned back then, like speaking in front of people, um, being comfortable to to to sell or to, to uh, to talk about enthusiastically About a certain a certain product or idea to pitch somebody like all of those things I picked up along the way. Yeah, but it was not an environment that I would would have seen myself in for, for the long term.

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:13] Yeah. I mean, I love that, right? Because you're, you know, this is something where it sounds like you went into it in the beginning because security was just a really strong value of yours for really good and understandable reasons. And this seemed like, okay, this would check that path. This is, you know, I could actually build that. And then you start to do it. You had the opportunities. You created the opportunities for yourself. You're deepening into it. You're sort of like rising up that ladder. And then there's that voice inside of you that says, this isn't it? And I love that awareness that you shared, that you started to pick up on the fact that it was, you know, like unofficial stuff that you were doing, like helping others like, you know, helping people grow into their own potential and navigate different things that you really were enjoying in that context, even though I'm guessing that wasn't part of the actual job description on paper. And I also love the fact that you sort of pointed out this notion that, you know, all the things that you learned in this, in this moment of your career and this season. This isn't a point of regret for you. You gained just incredible skills that you've been able to now take and repurpose in a different way.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:11:15] Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Like it's really I don't look back at it into in terms of like lost years or anything like that. I really do believe that the reason I am thriving now in my new role in my new career is because I have that skill set, and because a lot of people who start out with the profession I have now do not bring that specific background because they never experienced it. So I'm really glad that I had it. And it also makes me even more enthusiastic and more, um, thankful for for having found my new role. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:11:53] Yeah, I love that. So, so at some point you also you were sharing. You realize that you wanted to get education a different type of education. Up until that point, it was it was business focused. You got the MBA and then you were in a business role, but you started thinking about other things and then something, a light bulb went off that made you say, I feel like I need more education and in a very different way. So take me to how that decision got made and how that journey unfolded.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:12:21] It was a lot of different things. I mean, even back then, I enjoyed the topic of sexology, as in the science about human sex. What would how does an orgasm work? What happens in the brain when we have sex, when we're aroused, and all of that sort of stuff? So it was always like a hobby for me. Meaning that I was reading a lot on those, uh, scientifically written books on, on the subject matter. Um, and I knew that eventually it was not really a knowing. It was more like, I would love to, but it's so crazy. Um, and I can't even think of how this would ever turn out to be a career or anything, but I would love to just learn more about it. And I knew that if I wanted to be in any way, shape or form helping people, I wanted to take that responsibility seriously. And I knew that the first step would be to understanding how humans work before we before I start helping them on their on their sexuality concerns. So I felt like, again, for safety reasons, in a way, this was a nice little in-between step that would keep me on track of having this crazy fantasy of someday doing something with helping people with their sexuality, without knowing at all how this could look like, or how this would be a career that could finance a life or anything like that.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:13:42] And it also just entertained me. Well, so it was this like really like I'm a, I'm a German safety net enthusiast. So this is like very baby steps. And like doing this degree in psychology was just it was just that it gave me time. It gave me a purpose. It gave me a goal. So despite of what I did in my day job, like I always study part time. So despite what I did on on, on the day job, I always had this sort of bigger goal. Um, but yeah, it took forever. It was like 7 or 8 years that I, that I actually did that in part time. It was a really long journey just for, uh, for the first degree there. Mhm.

Jonathan Fields: [00:14:21] Yeah. But it sounds like it was the topic area was, was just so compelling and so genuinely interesting to you. You had a passion for it, um, that it kept you wanting to learn more and grow more. Yeah. So as you're working full time in finance and then pursuing the psychology degree on the side and developing this deepening interest in sexual relationships, in sexology, in the physiology and the psychology of sexuality, what happens to sort of like make you say, okay, it's time. It's time for me to now like to actually leave behind this, quote, Secure job in finance, where you build a reputation and a paycheck and all this stuff, and now you're going to say, I'm going to leave this behind and explore what it might be like to actually become a clinical psychologist.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:15:09] Actually, it took me even one more safety net. So I was like doing a second degree then in human psychology. And I could also do that part time, which was brilliant. And this was like the it kind of made it real, but it still wasn't real enough for me that I had to quit my job or I had to actually take that step. So it was like a second safety net. And, and also obviously something that was really important for me before I could, uh, could do the job. And then as soon as I started that, that degree, like, I kind of knew and I learned about pathways of how this could actually shape out, like how how do you actually set up a practice? How do you, um, what type of clients can you service? How would the job actually look like? Like, um, and that gave me a lot of confidence. And eventually that degree came to to the finish line. And then I made the jump. I was super nervous. I still am a lot of the time about being self-employed and about losing that safety net. In a way, it doesn't really matter how many clients I have or how many projects are ongoing. That sort of security issue is is with me a lot. Um, but yeah, I made the jump because I really felt, um, it's I have I've learned everything I can learn, and I've had the opportunity to really see out such clear career paths from those that I studied with and those that taught me there. So I felt really lucky in that moment. And yeah, I made a jump.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:40] Yeah, I.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:16:41] Mean, really scary.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:42] And I would imagine so, you know, I'm also I'm so curious. So, you know, you make a jump from, from this big career in finance into opening your own private practice, clinical sexology. And when you do that and then you share with others what you're doing. I'm curious what the response was, because it's one thing to say, I'm opening my own psychotherapy practice, and probably people would be like, okay, you've been to school. This is a deep passion of yours. I would imagine, just like in the domain of exploring human sexuality and then opening a practice, focus intensely on that. It's one of those things where a lot of people feel uncomfortable having the conversation, or they raise an eyebrow. It's like, you're doing what? I'm curious what the response was.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:17:26] Um, it's still, I feel like I have the coolest job at each party, and it's always like a smile and a okay, but then people get really excited about that and actually start talking about like, specific concerns they might experience actually in their in their love or in their, in their sex life. Um, I guess I got really incredibly lucky because when I, when I started out, I was finishing my book. I was, I was writing that while I was, uh, was finishing the, the study. So I had this like very I don't know how to say that, but it was like a boost from the beginning and with the book and by random accident, a couple of first speaking engagements that I got, um, a TV team actually approached me and we started this surreal journey of actually having me sex coach on TV. And that was so early on in the process that this period of people not really believing me, that I could even make this into something or, um, seeing it as a crazy hobby that she would give up on in a, in a month, um, was really short. Like, I got just incredibly lucky. I can't say it any other way. So that sort of push in the right in the beginning basically was, uh, was amazing. But yeah, um, it's still funny. Like, whenever I meet new people, I always consider when and how is the right moment to approach the subject and if I can or cannot share it. Um, even though it's like a perfectly normal job. I mean, I do talk at work. I sit in a, like, imagine my practice like a therapist practice. It's like comfy chairs. T in the middle. We drink a little bit of tea, we we talk. I mean, of course, there's a couple of, let's say vulva pillows where I can, um, where I can showcase anatomy or anything like that. And there's books on the shelves that wouldn't, wouldn't be in your typical therapist office, but it's a, um, it's not as crazy as it sounds. It's actually quite, uh, quite similar to your typical therapy practice that you would imagine.

Jonathan Fields: [00:19:34] Yeah. And I would imagine also like this is a this is an area of life that is really important to a lot of people. Yeah, it's an area of life where there's often frustration and sadness and dysfunction, but nobody talks about it. You know, they don't talk about it with with a lover, with a partner, um, with, you know, like friends with family. I mean, maybe some people do. They're just really comfortable with it. But I think I would imagine you see in your practice, a lot of people are just there. They would love help and they would love someone to actually guide them through. Okay. Are there things that we can do? Are there problems that can be fixed here, but they don't even know how to begin to broach the conversation, let alone realize that there's somebody who's actually educated and knowledgeable and skilled to actually step in here.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:20:20] Yeah. And that's what's like really driving me, because I feel like we all do learn about sex, but from the completely wrong sources. Like, I mean, we feel I feel like we all learn from porn, which is obviously not real sex. It's like profiles with a lot of equipment and a lot of cameras and lighting doing stuff that real sex isn't. We learn from, uh, therapists and, um, sort of doctors that we approach with our first issues who really don't learn a lot about positive sexuality, like who don't learn about Pleasure and sex positive aspects of of the idea, and very often are uncomfortable about speaking about those topics. And then biology teachers who really are even less comfortable with the subject. And we learn a lot about it in romcoms, in movies and books and songs. All of those, all of those actually give us the script of what sex should look like and what we should find sexy and how we should have sex, how it should look like, and all of that. But it's it's absolutely not what sex actually looks like. So we do learn what we learn a lot of fake stuff. And I feel like a lot of my job is actually education. It's it's educating the people that I see in my practice on and sort of decluttering all that false information that they, that they learned about sex.

Jonathan Fields: [00:21:41] Yeah, that makes so much sense. So this feels like it's probably a good a good time to bring your Sparketype into the conversation also. Oh, yes. You're so you're a sparketype. Your your primaries, the advisor. And for those who are new to this whole idea of Sparketypes is basically the impulses that we all have to to invest effort in a particular type of work for no other reason than the feeling it gives that we may be fortunate and get compensated for it. If we're really intentional, we can really center it in our work. So the advisor is all about guiding others through a process of growth. And then what we call your shadow, or some people call it the runner up is the scientist. And that's all about problem solving. Like there's a puzzle here, often a big thorny, complex puzzle. So I'm just thinking about those two things in the context of what you and I'm like, could there be a better fit?

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:22:28] No, that was literally what I thought when I, when I saw the results, because it's literally what I do all the time, particularly now that you're highlighting this problem solving, because I feel like coaching in a way is exactly that. It's like figuring out where the hurdles are and then building a strategy together with the client. So it's exactly that. And yeah, I love it. I feel that's why why I smile all the time when I, when I'm at my practice or coaching online or in my podcast. Um, it's really something that gives me sparks. It's something that, um, that gives me a lot of energy. Um, it's crazy because it's so different also to the to the shadow type that I have with the performer and the performance stuff of my role, which, like really drags energy off me. I feel like as soon as I'm in this advisor role, I'm as soon as I'm with with clients and seeing how they can thrive, how they can actually, uh, get those little steps from one session to the next. Um, yeah. It just makes me happy and fulfilled and it's. Yeah, it's really one of the, the, the greatest and most amazing decisions that I ever made, even though it was so scary.

Jonathan Fields: [00:23:40] Yeah, I love that. So it's like you were able to say, okay, so I have these two really strong drives in me, the drive to guide others through growth and to help solve complex problems I get to I get to focus on and do both of them all day, every day. And you get to apply it in in the context of a topic that you're just deeply passionate about, you know. And so you combine those three. And it oftentimes when you're able to do that, it kind of feels magical. And sometimes when you can build a career around it, I've heard so many people say, I literally can't believe I'm getting paid to do this, because I would do this for friends or for anyone else, just for free, even if I wasn't.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:24:17] Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And it does feel magical. And it does also feel like so effortlessly at times. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm putting in the hours. I'm working a lot of hours. So it's not it's not that there's no work, but it feels, it feels effortlessly and things seem to come towards me. New ideas, new projects, new partners, like it's all always sort of coming together almost magically. Like it's really crazy. Um, so yeah, I feel like insanely privileged in a way. I know that it is so rare to to have found something that is such a match.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:56] Yeah, I love that. It's, you know, the thing we hear a lot often when somebody is really able to align the work that they do with their Sparketype and their interests and all these things, is that they feel like the friction goes away, like whatever friction that they had in other work or other experiences just kind of vanishes away. Or if there's some that remains, it just it doesn't feel the same. It feels like, oh, okay, fine, whatever. Like it just maybe that's the part of the job that everyone has to do that like I don't love doing. But everything else is so good, it makes it just much less significant. Um, looking back at this journey that that you're on, um, what do you feel like you've learned? What really stands out?

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:25:35] Um, one of the things that I, that I recently talked about with, with a friend is this how amazing it feels, and this sounds maybe completely stupid to you, that you're you're into this realm and you're speaking with people who have who have found their passion before. But just like being able to be yourself. Like feeling authentic. Like, I felt like I should have said that. Maybe before as well. When you asked me, like one of the most difficult things about my past role was that it wasn't me. It was just completely not me. I was performing a role from morning to evening, and it sort of also slipped over into my private life. I was starting to to be a little bit holding back on my feelings, holding back on what I would share with people, being strategic in relationships and everything around me. Um, and this has for some reason completely gone from my life. So this learning that me and my authentic self are worth more and are perceived better than the role that I so desperately clinged on and played for such a long, long time. And it was such a hard work to to actually cling on to this role. This is such an amazing learning, like knowing that Your authentic self is is actually valued, is something that people enjoy surrounding themselves with, is something that people love to learn from. Is something. Yeah. That is just that's incredible. Yeah. And I wish I had known that sooner, that it's such a huge drain on your energy, on your full life, on your personal life, on everything to trying to be a different role to perform a different role that you're just not.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:18] Yeah. It's you know, I've heard that. So in so many variations, this, this notion that when we're performing some other identity or role, even in part, you know, that there's a certain weight that we're carrying around all the time, there's a certain heaviness, but we don't realize it until we finally have, you know, a combination of the courage and the will and the insight and the knowledge and the support to step out and actually show up fully as who we are. And then for the first time, then we realize, oh, wow, I didn't even know that I was carrying this thing around until I'm no longer carrying it. And it's like, life can be like this. I've heard variations of that story so many times.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:27:57] I can imagine. Yeah, for me it was. I couldn't even imagine that sort of feeling. I really couldn't. Um, but yeah, it feels like you said before. Magical. Sometimes it still feels like that.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:08] Yeah, yeah. Do you do you have, as we have this conversation? So how how many years into this practice are you now?

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:28:16] It's 2 or 3 years like this okay.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:18] So it's still fairly.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:28:20] Early stage.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:20] Right? Right.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:28:21] Yeah. It's crazy.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:22] What do you do. You have a vision for where you would like it to go.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:28:26] Um, so I'm still a one woman show. So my vision would be, uh, to potentially bring on somebody, which is actually happening now randomly. Again, it's so cool that, um, the person who actually helped me and, um, so the person who did the editorial design for the, for the book actually ended up asking me if I knew, uh, of where she could do an internship because she was also taking a different path and studying psychology now again. And then I said, well, why don't you do that at my practice? And, um, she's starting next month. I'm super excited because that really means that I have a little bit more support for the stuff that I'm not really great at, which, for example, is social media and, and, and other of those of those aspects. So that's what I would see as a, as a vision. I'd love to, to have more, more support for, for those things and maybe eventually have somebody join me in in the practice. Um, I could totally see her do that actually. Um, but yeah, we'll, we'll see how things play out. But that would be that would be a really nice future story for for the business. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:37] No, that sounds fantastic. And what you described also something that that I've heard and I've experienced that, you know, there's this I tend to really like to be fairly rational and logical. And I look at numbers and data sets. But I've seen over and over this pattern where when somebody becomes really aligned with who they are and then they actually show up in the world as that person, it's almost like you become a beacon that just you attract people who are also aligned with, like that energy, with that essence, with that identity into your orbit. It's, you know, it's a little woo, it's a little out there. But I've seen this happen so many times now that I really believe there's something to it. It sounds like that's kind of what's happening with you.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:30:16] It really does. Like it was crazy. And I'm really excited for her to join next month because I, I already enjoyed working with her on like, tight deadlines and it just matches so well. And she's the focus also on sexology. And yeah, it's just again, it's one of those perfect matches that you couldn't have planned better if you tried to just randomly happen. And um, I kind of get those a lot recently and I'm like always smiling and I feel like it's it's yeah, it's surreal sometimes.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:47] That's fantastic. Well, as we come full circle and any final thoughts or words of wisdom. Maybe for our community.

Lea Holzfurtner: [00:30:56] I would really say to to to listen to those ideas and to those, um, intuitive ideas about what you actually wanted to do, to listen to them more, more carefully. I feel like I haven't done that in the beginning. Um, and I feel like there is something that we know already what's what's good for us, what what sort of path could be good for us, and to listen to that more, more closely, more carefully. Don't don't push that voice down. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:24] Mhm. Thank you. And if you'd like to share your career transformation story on the spark podcast, to inspire others to maybe feel less stuck or unsure about their own career paths, we encourage you to apply to be a guest and check out the form in the show notes, because we believe that everyone deserves to find fulfillment and purpose in their work. And remember, if you're at a moment of Exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.