From overworked attorney to personal finance consultant

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:19] Hey there! So today we're excited to share one of our new features on the SPARKED podcast, Career Transformation Stories. We invite guests to share inspiring stories of their career change from reimagining the work they're currently doing. So it feels just so much more live to leaving behind unfulfilling jobs or creating new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, meaningful, and joy filled paths. And we're exploring how this Sparketype has also played a role in this journey. It's all about how to transform work into one of the best parts of life. So next up, we're exploring one woman's journey from being a lawyer to a personal finance consultant. Now quick note you'll hear us mention something we call Sparketypes in conversation. Well, what is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype. And when you discover yours, everything, your entire work life, and even parts of your personal life and relationships that just begin to make more sense. And until we know ours, we're kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. So our guest today is Hannah Bell, who stepped off the conventional law career track despite external and internal pressures and expectations to stay the course.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:36] And while practicing law, she had this profound internal shift that occurred listening to Personal Finance podcast during extremely long commutes, and it was a wake up call that reconnected her to a deep interest, and Hannah realized that she could help others align money with their deepest values. So rather than staying stuck, she leaned into her Sparketype profile. Her primary, the sage SPARKED to illuminate insights. Her shadow the advisor guiding growth of others and her anti the performer which accounts for the sense of energy drain in the courtroom and you'll hear Hannah's journey confronting self-limiting beliefs, embracing her callings and ultimately molding a meaningful new role as a financial coach and wellness consultant. So excited to share this inspiring career transformation story with you. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. Hey, and before we dive into today's episode, a quick share. So if you're a coach, a consultant or a leader, and you would just love to stand out more in 2024 and beyond, with a powerful new credential and a set of results driven superpowers, we have got something for you.

Jonathan Fields: [00:02:48] With nearly a million people now discovering their profiles, the Sparketypes have become a global phenomenon. People want their work to light them up, and oftentimes they would love some help along the way, which is why we developed our certified Sparketype Advisor training. As a Certified Advisor, you will discover cutting edge tools that spark profound work life client transformations. Stand out with a highly unique credential and skill set in a crowded market. Find ease and flexibility with templated engagement flows. You'll become a part of a global network of change makers, and you'll rack up 40 ICF continuing education credits. Our fall cohort is enrolling now with visionaries just like you, and we would love to invite you to uplevel your capabilities as a coach or consultant or leader by becoming a certified Sparketype advisor. To learn more about the fall training and see if it's right for you, just click the link in the show notes now or visit sparketype.com. Slash pros. I found it fun to start with a pretty similar question. It's wrapped around my curiosity about whether there was a story in your mind about work, what it was, what it wasn't, what the should students expectations were when you were growing up?

Hannah Bell: [00:04:07] Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I thought a lot about that because for me, I was drawn to become a lawyer because it felt like one of two really respectable career paths that I could take. I could become a doctor or a lawyer. And that was a lot driven by my own parents background. So I grew up in a wealthy ski resort town in northern New Mexico. My dad was a general contractor, and he worked these long, hard days in heat and cold. And my mom didn't go to college until she was much older. She had my oldest sister when she was pretty young, and so there were a lot of these shoulds and expectations put on us to go have a career that was successful and earned money and was, quote unquote, easier than the life that they had of manual labor and kind of difficult work. And so I definitely was drawn to the law for those reasons.

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:06] Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting also, especially the way you described where you grew up, because, you know, a lot of a lot of wealthier ski towns. It's like you open your eyes everywhere you look, you're surrounded by money. But if you are local to that town and you're not sort of like one of the folks who are coming in or part of the economy that that they bring to the town, a lot of times, you know, the families in that town who support it, it's a it's a profoundly different economic experience. So I'm wondering for you what it was like to sort of like be living one thing, like be in the family that you had have the messages and the values passed on, and at the same time, being able to literally open your eyes and walk out and just look around and see something radically different.

Hannah Bell: [00:05:46] Yeah, it's a really great point. You know, we were really middle class, and I think it's hard for me to have known that as a kid, because I did see a lot of people who had more than us, and that was what was so appealing to me. Was this more? On the other hand, there were a lot of people who had less. And and that was the stark truth of this town. And so even our high school had an on site day care facility because there were so many teen parents. And that was a reality of growing up there.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:13] Mhm.So when it comes time for you to figure out, okay, I'm starting to become a grown up, what do I start to I mean, not even when before you go to work, but when you start to think about like when I'm thinking about school, like anything past high school, what does that start to look like for you? And then what's sort of like driving the decisions that you end up making.

Hannah Bell: [00:06:33] So the people around us who are really wealthy and successful, that I sort of had put on a pedestal were lawyers. So my parents friends who were really wealthy, who had maybe beach houses, second homes somewhere else, or season tickets to sports events, they were all lawyers. And then a lot of my peers growing up who were in wealthy families, their parents were lawyers. And so for me, it was this very clear cut decision. And they want to hear the kids say these days as it was K through JD. So for me, I just went straight through. I don't feel like I ever paused to really think about it. Beyond that, it was like, this is a successful path that will lead to earning money, and that is what I'm supposed to be doing. And that's what is appealing and leads to a good life.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:18] That's I've never actually I'd never heard that phrase K through JD. Um, that is that's pretty wild. I imagine there are a couple variations of that too. It's like k k through MBA, k through like M.D., MD. Right. Yeah. Um, that's that's interesting. It's like but like you were saying, it implies you're not even really making a conscious choice once you like, get on that track. It's just like, this is what I'm starting like. The end point is that one thing, and there's really no other consideration. It sounds like that was like what it was for you. Yeah, that.

Hannah Bell: [00:07:51] Was absolutely it. I in college I got a job at a law firm, and it sort of reaffirmed those beliefs I had about money of like, think this is a nice lifestyle. These people do well. And so it was just this easy decision to apply to law school after after college.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:07] Mhm.So I'm curious when you're in law school I have law in like five past life at this point. It's a long time ago in my history. But I found the experience of being in law school profoundly different than the experience of practicing law. I actually really, as hard as it was, and sometimes psychologically grueling as it was, I enjoyed being in law school. I found a lot of the challenges really kind of interesting to me, and the first year where most people, it just it's pretty destructive in a lot of ways, especially psychologically. It was for me. And yet there was something about it that I just locked into. And I was like, I'm on a mission here. And to me, it was a game. And I was like, I need to figure out the rules of the game and then just play it. Um, I'm curious what your experience of, of studying law was before he even went out and started practicing.

Hannah Bell: [00:09:00] You know, I really had this set idea that I wanted to be a plaintiff's lawyer, and in particular, I wanted to do nursing home malpractice. So I loved my torts class, and that was the one I probably really paid the most attention to. The rest I found really challenging. Not it not terribly interesting to me. And I'll tell you, when I found something that interested me, it was such a different experience. The law never interested me in that way other than my torts class. And then later in law school, I discovered mediation, which is sort of a funny parallel, which I'm sure we'll talk about today. But so those were the two areas of law that I enjoyed. Mediation, I wouldn't know. I don't know if we'd call it actually an area of law, but it's often taught in law schools.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:43] Yeah. Now I'm even more fascinated because to have an interest or at least a focus on I want to be plaintiff's lawyer and work in nursing home litigation that is highly specific. Before you even step out into the practice. Like, where did that come from?

Hannah Bell: [00:09:59] You know, I had this really wonderful love for my grandmother. She was my favorite person in the world. And there was a time in her life when we had to look for assisted living homes for her. And I just remember being pretty upset by a lot of what we saw. And then I started learning about when I was working in the law firm, the cases that can come out of out of those homes, and it felt like a population that really needed help, that was just so vulnerable. So that was where I felt like my heart was pulled the strongest in the law. And then as it relates to becoming a plaintiff's lawyer, plaintiff's lawyers are it's it's risky, but it's also where the money is.

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:45] Right. So you were sort of bridging that gap. You're going back to the message from when you were a kid. You're like, I got to make the money and this is the path to doing it. That's the plaintiff side. But then there was also a heart centered, you know, side of this as well. For you. It's like you had this personal experience that said, oh, like I saw what happened here, and I want to kind of right a wrong at the same time. So, so when you leave law school, then what do you end up doing?

Hannah Bell: [00:11:06] So interestingly, I for a little while, I had a business where I led focus groups, um, and lawyers would hire me to test out their case in front of mock juries. Ha. And that was this really interesting experience. And through that, I had this mentor, and her father was a trial lawyer, and he was in his 70s. He'd probably been practicing law for 45 or 50 years, and he had just had a $25 million jury verdict. And he was a solo practitioner, and he invited me to come be his associate. So I accepted the job. I closed up shop on my focus group business, and I went and practiced law with him. And I did that for about a year and a half. And the reason it ended really was I was commuting three hours each way for that job, but I was so dedicated to learning from this person because he was just he was it was in southern New Mexico, and he had this southern charm and draw and was really had that presence in front of a group of people that was so magnetizing. And so I took this opportunity to learn from him. Um, in that time, interestingly, I had this long commute and I did it.

Hannah Bell: [00:12:20] I, I'd either leave my home on Sunday afternoons or about 4 a.m. on Monday morning to get there. And I started listening to personal finance podcasts, and that was when I had this, like, spark, this content, this information fascinates me. And that was a stark contrast from the way I felt about learning about the law, where it was just sort of downloading the information because I knew I needed it to engage in this profession, whereas learning about personal finance was this in my body, love for the work. So I started doing that. Um, and I'll get into that more. But as a lawyer, I had the job in southern New Mexico for a few years or for a year and a half. I came back, I became an assistant district attorney. Um, I did that for a few months. Um, and then I was most recently as a lawyer. I was an assistant county attorney, which is kind of a general practice law practice. Um, mainly I did procurement, which is reviewing contracts for purchases and policy work, sort of general in nature.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:30] Okay. So from the early sort of like messaging, that law is where the money is and that being a focus of yours seeing like saying like I want a certain amount of resources as when I go out there into the world to working for a plaintiff's lawyer, where and by the way, for those who don't know, plaintiff's lawyers often work on contingency, which means that you don't really get paid anything up front other than maybe just covering some expenses. But if you win and it's it's a very large verdict. You take a pretty substantial percentage of that verdict. So it can be very risky, but also stunningly lucrative, especially if you're good at your craft and, you know, it's it's, um, and it's a big verdict. So you go from that and seeing that and studying someone who's out there, you know, doing it at a high level to then I mean, going to be, you know, working basically for government that's a radically different economic equation.

Hannah Bell: [00:14:25] It is. Yeah. And so this is where like the personal finance and the whole career change came in for me. I started learning about money and realizing maybe wealth wasn't the thing I needed. Maybe seeking money was the wrong answer. Uh, as I was listening to these podcasts and learning and really diving into my own finances, and then my husband, we had just gotten married. I realized we were both lawyers. We met in law school. We were making, what, two teachers or could make. And we're thinking neither of us love what we're doing. What are we doing? Why are we going to continue on this path if we don't have to, if we could have other choices? And so what we realized was we needed two incomes in order to pay our bills, and we wanted to figure out how we could just have one income instead and live on just one income so that we could have more choice to explore other things. So I was having this job working for this plaintiff's attorney I wasn't getting. This is very common in early law practice, especially in like a plaintiff firm or a big civil defense firm. You don't really get a lot of hands on experience. You're kind of doing grunt work.

Hannah Bell: [00:15:38] And so I felt like, you know, what if I if I want to give law a real try, I think I need to go get in the courtroom. And so I applied to the district attorney's office in the city where, where we live. And I had that job for about six months. And it's interesting when I think of my Sparketype, my ante is the performer Being in a courtroom is just like the most exhausting thing for me. So I did that for about six months. You, like, never really get to prepare. You're in court every day. You're flying by the seat of your pants. So not my personality. And there were things about it that I enjoyed. But really, at the end of the day, it was not a good choice. And then I got offered this other job in government that was this really good quality of life, which I think I sort of had begun to realize, like that was what mattered more than making a lot of money. So I had this radical transformation because of money that led me to a job that was maybe not the most inspiring, but it provided a quality of life that was really great.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:36] Yeah.So it sounds like there are a couple of things that are happening at once. You're starting to say, okay, so maybe the assumptions that I have made for a lot of my life about the ways to make money and how much money and how that money is made, maybe I'm starting to question that, and maybe that's really not the primary driver that I want to be the thing that leads my career choices. Then at the same time, you're just on the side because you know, which starts just as how do I how do I effectively kill a three hour commute every day? You start to listen to these personal finance podcasts. And there's something about that. The topic, the content that where something's something's getting lit up in you and you're like, huh, this is really interesting. That is then teaching you a different lens on money simultaneously. So it's like all these threads are weaving together at the same time. So and I would imagine also zooming the lens out, you're now two three years out of law school. Your husband is also, as you shared earlier, you don't come from a family where like there's a lot of money in the family. And so I'd imagine you probably both graduated with some level of debt that you were carrying.

Hannah Bell: [00:17:44] Yeah, I he actually didn't take on any debt, which was really amazing. But we collectively had between student loans and a new fancy car, we financed about $90,000 of debt. And that's where this really started, where we just decided, let's pay this. Off. Because that was what seemed to be in the way, mostly. I mean, there was lifestyle stuff, but also the debt was really in the way of being able to live on one income or have different opportunities and just kind of a psychological way. I had almost $70,000 of student loan debt just from law school. Felt like I have to keep being a lawyer as long as I have this debt. So we paid off all that debt in two years. And, um, it was really amazing. What happened is we're paying off this debt, and I'm I'm starting to talk to peers about it. Nobody's talked to me about money in my life in this way. But I'm starting to say, like, look, this is what we're doing. This is the experience we're having. And people are starting to say, I don't enjoy what I'm doing either. I don't really enjoy the work I'm doing, but I'm trapped by money or money and something else. I feel really stuck in this. So I started to have more conversations with people about this and This little business started growing on the side because people wanted to know, like, how are you paying off that debt? What does it look like to do that or to change how you're seeing money? So we we paid off all of our debt.

Hannah Bell: [00:19:06] We ended up we found out we were pregnant with our first child, right as we paid off the rest of our debt. And then three weeks later, it was Covid. And we had our son in October of 2020, which was kind of one of the big peaks, and he ended up spending six weeks in the NICU. And when he was ready to come home, my husband was told he had to go back to work in person, and we were just not ready to put this little precious baby with someone else or in daycare. So we got into this place where we could live on one income. So my husband actually had this opportunity to become a stay at home dad, and he did. He stayed home with our son for nine months, and that was like solidifying all of this for me. Like, this is what matters is that we have choices like this that we can make. We don't need to make exuberant amounts of money. There's nothing wrong with that. Just it matters how we use it to facilitate the life that we really want to be living. And then being intentional about what that life means and looks like. So my husband stayed home for the first nine months, and when he was ready to go back to work, I actually left practicing law entirely.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:17] So when you when you get to that point, it sounds like you had already gone deep into the world of personal finance. You know what I mean? Somebody hears from just listening to you. Wait a minute. You paid off 90 grand of educational debt in two years. That's kind of mind blowing, you know, that is, especially when you're you don't have super high flying, you know, like high mid six figure jobs and you're, you're a young family. And like that is what most people would, would envision as just being like a really deep financial crunch. Like this is the moment when you the assumption often is, well, you don't really have choices. Like you just have to do this thing because you're locked in. Yeah. Um, and you somehow basically said, not us.

Hannah Bell: [00:21:08] Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah. We did not have high six figure. In fact, I love this statistic. Our first year married tax return. Um, we made $88,000 to lawyers. And I think that is. I think it's mind boggling, too. Um, because we have this perception that, like all lawyers do, really well. And I was a government lawyer. My husband was working in a tiny practice. Um, and so much of it is, like, incentivized based and, um, all these things. So no, we didn't. And it was really about being able to get clear on what we valued. And I think what happens and again, a lot like my path to becoming a lawyer and sort of societal pressures to choose careers like that, we also have the societal pressures to consume certain things and have certain lifestyles. And I think it was becoming really aware of where we can make changes that are intentional, that maybe we won't have the biggest home or the newest cars, but then we have these other choices, and that's what really mattered to us.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:13] Yeah, that.Makes so much sense. So it's probably a good moment to just speak briefly about your Sparketype also. So you already shared that your anti Sparketype was a performer. And for anyone listening who's new to this, you know, these are the impulses that that drive us to invest energy or effort. And often they show up in work, but they can also show up in all parts of our lives. So the anti Sparketype tends to be the type of work that is most draining to you. Most emptying takes the greatest recovery when you do it, and the performers work is all about animating, enlivening interactions, moments, experiences. And as a trial lawyer, I mean, that can be very central to what you're doing. If you're the type of lawyer that actually ends up spending a lot of time in court, which actually a lot of trial lawyers don't. But, um, the let's talk about the other two parts of your Sparketype, though, the primary or, and what we call your, your strongest impulse for work that actually makes you come alive is what we call the sage. And that's all about in basically sparking insight, illumination, often shorthanded as teaching. And the shadow or the runner up in our language is the advisor, and yours was. And that's all about guiding people through a process of growth. So the sage, the teacher and the guide, it seems so well suited for sort of like this moment that you're in. And it seems like the decision that you make about, okay, so I'm as you just shared, I'm going to leave my practice of law. But then what comes next? And this, you know, this, this impulse or set of impulses seems to just really be woven tightly into your next choices there. Yeah.

Hannah Bell: [00:23:47] It's so interesting reading these. It almost feels like this great permission slip to say like, ah, yes. Uh, so I left my law practice and I started really more formally, started this coaching business, helping other professionals learn a system or a framework for managing their money. And a lot of that is driven by helping people understand that maybe we do have more choices than we think. I felt so strongly when I started learning about money and talking to people and seeing I feel really stuck in what I'm doing, but I can't leave because I need the money. And sometimes that was like my classmates wanted to work for legal aid, but then they got a job in a civil defense firm, and now they're doing billable hours. And they can't leave that because their lifestyle or their debt had just grown too big. But what really lit them up was doing legal aid work. And so which comes with a much lower salary. Um, so I really was enlivened by this idea of sort of as the sage I think wants to say is like, I've got this information, I have to share it with you because this is so exciting to me and it will change your life. And so that is really what happened was I started this coaching business, helping other people really understand what it meant to spend their money in a certain way and understand the trade offs that come with spending money in certain ways, or earning money or being intentional, sort of holistically about the role money plays in our lives.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:20] Yeah. I mean, and so how so you basically transitioned into what would be the official term, is it like finance coach or like how do you what do you call yourself?

Hannah Bell: [00:25:30] Yeah, I call myself either a financial coach or a financial wellness consultant.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:35] Okay.

Hannah Bell: [00:25:36] Because I really think of it as this holistic wellness body.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:41] Mhm. So how as we're having this conversation, how far are you into that.

Hannah Bell: [00:25:46] So I started it about three years ago. Um I have had two kids along the way. So when we think about being intentional, I also try to think about my role as their mom as giving permission for slower growth. So I started the business three years ago, and I have gotten a certification as a financial counselor. So sort of just more education also sort of funding on the sage Sparketype like this constant need for learning always there.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:21] It's like you always want to have more to share.

Hannah Bell: [00:26:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hannah Bell: [00:26:24] So you're seriously. It is. It's kind of nonstop.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:27] Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:28] So when you're three years into this now, how's it going? How are you? How does your how does this approach to work make you feel?

Hannah Bell: [00:26:37] So, so SPARKED, I, um, as I, as I read through the Sparketypes of Sage and advisor, it was this really interesting understanding of sort of this culmination of the things that I've enjoyed in life for their sake, Not for any other reason, but because I enjoyed those things. And so, as I think of the adviser, um, I, I teach mediation at the law school here. I'm one of the faculty members for the mediation program, and the adviser is such a mediator. And getting to work with people on not just saying you should save money and these are the keys, but to say, let's really explore what matters to you and getting to dive in with people. And particularly I love when I work with couples because I can see sort of these surface level disputes that happen, and then getting to be the advisor and, and mediator, really getting to ask them questions that help them align and and grow together. It is the most satisfying work I've done in my lifetime.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:43] Um. That's amazing. I, I love when I hear somebody say that about what whatever it is they're doing. And, and sadly, it's also pretty rare. Um, a lot of folks end up being able to say that. And I'm looking at you on video and there's a big smile you're radiating while you're saying that. I'm curious when you look back over sort of like the arc of the last, you know, chunk of time, is there anything that sort of, in hindsight you might have done differently?

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:08] Hmm.

Hannah Bell: [00:28:09] You know, I've thought maybe I wish I hadn't gone to law school. Um hmm.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:15] Oh, tell me more.

Hannah Bell: [00:28:16] Well, you know, I think what I've learned from managing money is this. This idea of being intentional and making really intentional choices. And when I think back to that, that wasn't a really intentional choice. That was I just am following a path, and I was 21 or 22 years old, and that's okay. Um, our joke sort of is I met my husband in law school, so it was a very expensive dating site. Um, I don't know that there's a lot I would change. I, I think that so many of these things that have happened are the culmination of where we get to in life and to be able to kind of look back and piece them together is really fun. It's really fun, and I'm grateful that I get to do that now.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:04] Mm. Beautiful. Do you have a sense three years into your current work? Do you are you the type of person sort of like, looks forward and like creates a plan or a vision? Like, do you have a sense for. This is what I would love for this to become? Or are you more in the moment with what you're doing?

Hannah Bell: [00:29:20] No. I think about the future a lot. Um, you know, I really do feel like this deep need to share this information with as many people as possible, because I think similar to seeing people sparked by the work that they do that you do. I feel that way when I see someone kind of bogged down by money problems, that when I see someone say, um, we wish we could have a stay at home parent, but we can't afford to. And I'm looking and I'm saying, yes, you can, yes you can. And that would change your life so dramatically if that's what you want. So really getting this in front of more, more groups, I've run group programs in the past, and so running more group programs would be really an incredible evolution. Having more throughout the year and just getting it in front of more people would be really ideal as we look forward.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:12] Mhm. That sounds good. Any final thought or words of wisdom for our community?

Hannah Bell: [00:30:19] Yeah. Um, don't be afraid to try out different things until you find what feels right. Ideally, don't let money bog you down in any of that either.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:32] Mm. Beautiful. Thank you.

Hannah Bell: [00:30:34] Thank you.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:37] Hey. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life. And maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.