How to Blend Well-Paid Work & Engaging Side Passions

Guest: [00:00:04] So my question is, do I stick to my current plan and work another two ish years to increase my salary before going to part time? Or do I forget the raise, go down to part time as soon as I can and start living my best life sooner?

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:22] In today's episode, our listener Liana shares a kind of a conundrum that many of us have pondered. Do you stay in the well-paying job and build up your savings, or do you go part time, maybe in order to do more of what lights you up? And as Liana puts it, live your best life sooner. The question being, what do you value more money or time? And is it even a real dichotomy? And on deck with me this week from the SPARKED Brain Trust to help tease out what really matters and share insights and ideas is Deborah Owens. So after a long career in leadership and some of the biggest companies in the world, Deborah found her own consulting firm, Corporate Alleycat, where she advises and coaches people of color in all aspects of career visioning and development. She has the incredible ability to see what's happening under the surface in any given situation, and ask questions that get to the heart of the matter and reveal possibilities that feel both empowering and expansive. And hey, quick note you'll hear us mention something we call Sparketypes in the conversation. Well, what is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your sparketype when you discover yours, everything, your entire work life, even parts of your personal life and relationships, they begin to make more sense. And until you know yours well, we're kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. Now on to Lianna's story and question. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.

Guest: [00:01:59] Hi Jonathan and the SPARKED podcast crew. My name is Lee, and your invitation to ask a question really resonated with me and where I am in my career right now, especially after learning my sparketype. For the longest time, I was on the hamster wheel in my career, going straight from college to a PhD in neuroscience and hoping to land my dream job as a professor in a location I could settle down in. So when I landed that dream job as an assistant professor at a university in Vermont making the most money in my career, I thought I had it all. And you probably know how the story goes. The dream job didn't end up being the dream job. While I love teaching, there were so many other toxic aspects, including that I was spending all my time working even though I knew I needed out, it felt daunting to change course from a destination I had been striving to achieve for years. I started thinking about what else I love to do that I could make into a career, and I ended up taking a $20,000 pay cut to be an academic editor at a company where I could work remotely. While the pay cut hurt the ego, my salary started to feel much better when I realized I could still completely support myself financially and save and get my work done in about 35 to 38 hours a week.

Guest: [00:03:06] All of a sudden, for the first time in what felt like my whole life, I had all this time and I discovered that I actually had passions and things that excited me outside of work that I had never even had the time to think about before. It was around this time that I stumbled across my Sparketype, and I have goosebumps just thinking about it. So my primary Sparketype is the nurturer, and one of the first things I read about it is that this sparketype often finds a powerful outlet in non-professional pursuits, something I was just realizing at the time. Then I read that my shadow Sparketype is the Maven, which is fully aligned with my current work as a medical writer, which requires basically never ending learning. And then the next part is what stopped me in my tracks. I read that we do the work of our shadow Sparketype in service of being able to do the work of our primary Sparketype at the highest level. This basically helped me come up with my current plan to increase my income and eventually get to the point financially where I can go down to part time at my day job to have more time to work on my side passions.

Guest: [00:04:06] So, um, recently, you know, I tried to increase my income so that I can get to that goal. And I am now working at a great company, doing work I enjoy in a fairly low stress environment where I make 20 K more than I did at that first job as a professor. So I'm thinking I'll work there for a year or so, ask for a raise, and then another year or so. Then I'd go down to part time. But here's my conundrum do I really need to wait? I could easily handle my finances with a part time salary. However, I struggle because nothing's really wrong at work and I enjoy what I do. It's just that working 40 hours is dragging me down, and all I do is daydream about what I would be doing if I wasn't working. So my question is, do I stick to my current plan and work another two ish years to increase my salary before going to part time? Or do I forget the raise, go down to part time as soon as I can and start living my best life sooner? Thank you so much!

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:03] Hey, before we dive into. Today's show. You know, we've learned that a lot of our listeners are sort of at this moment where they're really exploring the notion of work in their lives and their next moves in their careers. And if you are in that place, we talk about the SPARKED and the Sparketypes a lot on this show, this body of work that we've developed to help you really identify what makes you come alive and how to apply that to the world of work. We've heard from a lot of folks that they would also love some help along that journey. If you're curious, you can also find on our website a directory of Certified Sparketype Advisors who know this body of work and can really help coach and guide you through it. So we'll drop a link to the show notes in that right now. And if it feels interesting to you and you just like somebody to help guide you through this next part of your career or work journey, take a look and see if somebody resonates. It might be the perfect fit to help you along this next leg of your journey. Again, that link is in the show notes now. So interesting, right? On so many levels. I feel like there are like ten different places that you and I could dive into this. Let's start with just like zooming the lens out, like as you were listening to Lisa, like, share her story and and her question at the end, which I think is fascinating too. What were some of the things that really jumped out at you along the way?

Deborah Owens: [00:06:30] Well, I think what jumped out at me was the end, Jonathan, where she said, I can do it financially, but should I stick with my current plan? And I wish I had the opportunity to ask her, what is this side business, right? Or what is her business idea? Because that would impact how I view it. But the question that I would ask her is because she seems like a pretty methodical person in terms of how she's led her life up to this point. And I would want to know, why did she create this current plan? Right? So why did she feel like it was important to get more income? Because just because you can live on it doesn't mean that that will be enjoyable. Does it mean that she'll still be able to save? Will she still be able to have a rainy day fund? Or was she creating this plan so she could put those things in place? And the other thing I thought about Jonathan, which is very different, is that now with a side hustle, you don't have to or side business, you don't have to quit your full time job. You can ease into it. Right? So she could kind of ramp up into it. And when it gets to the point that it's close to her salary or some people even exceeding their current salary, then you can drop down or leave it all together. But I don't think in these this day and age, it has to be an all or nothing or an all in part time, right? You can kind of do both.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:00] Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was keying in on, on a lot of the same things and that that same realization that you just shared. I think we tend to think there's this binary choice of, you know, like we're either doing this thing or doing this thing. But when I have found, like you so many times that if that thing that you're looking to, you know, like transition out of and the thing that you're looking to transition into, if the main thing is, can I sustain the amount of money that I feel like I need to check whatever boxes are important to me, and you hone homed in on this so beautifully, it's like we don't actually know what's important to lay like. Clearly, like money is a part of the equation for her. And we all show up as grown ups with different reasons why money is a part of the equation. For some of us, we're like, we're completely good just making enough to, you know, like comfortably cover our expenses. Others, we have a different history around money. And we really we feel like our value is no.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:56] We actually need to save and have a certain amount of money and build security and build X amount, you know, as a nest egg, whatever it may be. But the notion that you can potentially start to build this thing on the side, especially in in her situation where it sounds like all of a sudden she's got the time to build on the side, you know, whereas earlier she was saying she basically like, you know, like work was her entire life. Now she's she's already done the work to reorganize so that she has that bandwidth to build on the side. And the question is, well, what would happen if you actually just kept on keeping on? Like, do you actually have to make this decision right now, or could you keep the job going at it's like what, you know, a comfortable level and then keep building this thing on the side until it revealed to you, you know, like what the potential really is and showed you that, you know, like you actually could make this transition fairly easily without feeling any sense of risk or loss.

Deborah Owens: [00:09:54] Well, that's what I was going to say, Jonathan. The nice thing is, if you transition into it, you can be a little riskier with your ideas, right? And what you create and who you create it for. Sometimes when you put yourself in that situation and you don't have the financial cushion, just something to think about. Sometimes your creativity can be limited because now it's all about driving revenue, right? And so I don't know how important money is to her, Jonathan, but I do know she brought it up several times. Right? She talked about she had the professor job at giving her more money than she'd ever made. So then she took a $20,000 pay cut, which, you know, was a little hit to her ego. Right? We all get that. Then she took another job that allowed her to make 20,000 more than she made when she was a professor. So. And I think there's maybe one other time. So income did come up a number of times. Right. And I don't know about you, Jonathan. Have you ever seen this? Sometimes you see people who have lived their life in a very structured, methodical way, and then they're just like, I just don't want to be like that anymore, right? I just want to, you know, I think I've got some money. I just want to go for it. I just want to be a little. A more spontaneous. So sometimes you have career decisions and lifestyle decisions kind of wrapped into one. Does that make sense? Have you ever seen that where people. Yeah, I'm tired of being I'm tired of doing everything in a linear fashion and doing it right. I just want to I want to explore this and I want to do it now. And I don't want to have a plan. I want to be spontaneous, and nothing's wrong with that. But you want to make sure that it allows you that this change in plan will allow her to do and be this creative, or to get into something that's more innovative and not kind of switch her into the hustle where it's all about generating revenue.

Jonathan Fields: [00:11:55] And yeah, like you brought up a couple of really interesting points also, and this, this notion of structure and then and freedom and the tension that sometimes and us hitting a tipping point where and this is really interesting because I think we see it in Lydia's case, but we also see it with so many people where there's this sort of there's a prescribed path. You know, we see this in academics a lot, you know, like you get this degree and then this degree and then this degree and then this postdoc and then this, like assistant thing and then and you work your way. It's kind of all laid out for you. Right? And not every career path is like that. But but there are solid chunk that are. And then so then you do it all and you check all the boxes and you do all the things that you're, you know, supposed to do. And then you get to this place and you realize, oh, that end point. It's actually not what I thought it was going to be. And it's not making me feel the way that I hoped I would feel. And I've done everything and I've followed the rules. I followed the structure, I followed the path. And then when you realize at the end of all of that, you've very often, you know, like served up a lot of money and a lot of time along the way, and it's not actually giving you what you hoped.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:06] I think a lot of folks will hit that moment and say, oh, so I not only like, am I not happy with this, but I'm wondering if the whole notion of following this structured path is actually just it feels too much like a cage than a than a path for me to walk down, which will give me what I want. Um, so then they sort of say, like, let's just blow it all up. I just want complete freedom to figure this out. I will deal with the uncertainty of not knowing what comes next in the name of the freedom that I get, um, from leaving the structure and the path behind. So I thought that insight from you was really fascinating. But there's something else that you you glance like you touched on for a hot second and then you move past. But I think it's really important. So I want to revisit it. That is this idea of when you're doing something on the side purely for the feeling that it gives you, you know, for the joy, for the creativity, for the expression. And then you make a decision that says, this thing now has to make money, too. It can sometimes really change the way that you experience it. And you you just hinted at that for for a moment. Can you take us back into that? Because I think it's a really interesting and important point.

Deborah Owens: [00:14:19] Well, I think that we all have lots of talents and gifts, right? And there are some things that we are really passionate about. And I think at this point in my career, I actually believe that everything that is a passion for you doesn't have to be a business, right. It can just be a passion and something you do. But when you take something that you're passionate about that you love doing, it's a maybe it's a creative outlet or it's a learning opportunity and you do it when you feel like it, when it hits you and it just brings you joy. That May doesn't have to, but it may change when. Now you have to look at this passion not just as your passion, but as your revenue. And that's when oftentimes you have to restructure the way you approach your passion. Right? Because now maybe you have to do it to a different audience. Maybe now you have to modify or tweak it. Maybe now you have to make some some decisions around the integrity or the essence of it. Right. So now it's just not for you. It's for other people. And having that pressure for some. Not everyone can be daunting, because it can take you right back to that structure piece that you didn't want. It's kind of like it can be the equivalent of having your dream job, getting it, and finding out that it wasn't what you wanted. Right? You can take your passion, you can love doing it, but find out I love doing it, but not as a business. It takes all the fun out of it. If I have to now consider will anybody buy this? Will they purchase this? Will people be interested in it? And so I just I think that's important to think about. But one of the other things that I thought was really great, Jonathan. As she mentioned, is the job that she's in now. She said she actually likes it.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:14] Yeah. And so that's so important.

Deborah Owens: [00:16:17] Yeah. So I would say if you're at a position, it's giving you the funds you're able to save, you're able to have time to work on the things that you're passionate about. I would say that's a great situation. Right. And I don't know exactly what she does, but we've talked about this before. Oftentimes where you work, if you do a good job, you like it. They could be your first client, right? You can ease into it. And it doesn't have to be this or that or that binary choice. Right. You can just kind of ease into it, which in many cases will give you less stress, which will allow your creative juices and those passions to kind of stay alive as opposed to, okay, now I've got to make this work. The pressure's on. I've got to make this work.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:06] Yeah, I mean, it's it's such an interesting dance. And like you said, you know, she said, I enjoy what I do. It's just working 40 hours is dragging me down. So part of what was happening in my head also was, well, and it sounds like this is maybe what she's thinking about too is on the one hand, run the experiment to see if you actually started doing these other things you want to do on the side, and you had to rely on them to make money. Will you still feel the same way about them? So before you make any sort of like, you know, like more serious decisions or cut back or change jobs first, run that experiment a little bit. If in fact it's something that is, you know, like she was thinking about like, well, these other things, you know, I want to be able to do them more. And, you know, they also will need to contribute to my ability to support myself, see if they still make you feel the same way that they make you feel when you're just doing them for the joy of doing them, for the expression of who you are. Because oftentimes, like you said, it does change that. And I have run that experiment many times and been surprised when the thing that I love doing on the side, when I tried to turn it into a business, I was like, wow, all the trappings are changing. The quality of this experience for me on a level that I don't want to do it this way. I just want to do it because I love it.

Jonathan Fields: [00:18:25] And even if that means doing it less hours a week. But but the hours that I am doing it, it's just pure joy and pure expression. I'm okay with that. So I think that's a really interesting experiment to run. And the other thing that popped into my mind was, could you actually say, well, you know, I'm going to is there a way for me to keep my mainstream thing but do it differently where I'm actually increasing what I'm getting paid to do the exact same thing, maybe even to be able to cut back from 40 hours a week to 30 hours a week, but increase, like what my hourly rate is, or how I'm getting paid by 20%. So the net effect on me, money wise is really nothing, but it buys me 25% more time to do this thing that I want to do. And then if you think, well, like, is that possible? And you ask the question, what would it take to do that? And then you start to run the scenarios and say, well, like I could try like you said, what if we switched from an employee basis to a contract basis? And now I actually am freelancing doing the same thing, but I'm charging all of my clients 30% more and sort of like navigating and just taking 2 or 3 clients to do something similar, which as a maven also might really satisfy her quote, never ending desire to learn. So I love some of this. Or like the creativity that she could explore around this moment. Yeah.

Deborah Owens: [00:19:53] And I was thinking along the same lines as you, Jonathan, which is oftentimes there are opportunities that are right in front of us. And I think now is the time where you can do things that may not be traditional because nothing's traditional anymore. Right? We're all learning as we go in this new environment. But I would be curious, is it the 40 hours a week that's dragging her down, or would she feel differently if maybe she changed her schedule, where she did her work or her projects four days a week? Mhm. And then she'd have one full day to work on her passion. So a lot of companies are allowing people to do you know your 40 hours but do them in four days. What's something like that. Be appealing to her. So she'd have a full day right to work on her passions or could she change her hours a bit? You don't have to go maybe to full part time, but depending on what type of work she does, could she do 30 hours? You know, could it be more of a project basis? Could she throw in some half days there? I think there's lots of room for experimenting, particularly if you like what you're doing. You like the organization and if they like you. And here's the key point. And if they want to keep you, you'll be surprised at how creative people will get. So I can tell you, I had someone that I really wanted to hire and our company wasn't doing remote, but I fought for it and she only came into the office two days a week, which hadn't really been done before. So when people really want you or they want to keep you, you'll be surprised what you may be able to work out. And then, yeah, it happens, right? Because there are people who bring that, that spark, that energy, that quality of work, the client relations, whatever it is, and people want to keep that. So there may be an opportunity to negotiate something a little different.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:04] Yeah. Especially now. Right. Because we are we are in a moment and nobody knows how long this window is going to last. But we are in a moment right now where employees have a, have a. A level of leverage that they haven't had in a very long time. So what's possible? What was possible in sort of like a traditional paradigm of work at this particular moment in time may be very different. So there's definitely a window for reimagining. The other thing. So her specific question was, do I stick to my current plan and work another two ish years to increase my salary before going part time? And I think what we're saying here is maybe question the fundamental assumption around that, which is if the old paradigm was, you know, like this is the type of organization where you show up, you put in your two years, every two years you're eligible for a raise. And then that raise, like they tell you, basically like, here's what the next level is like. Question. All of those assumptions is does it have to be two years? Could it be six months? Could it be two months? Does it have to be sort of like the traditional amount of a raise, or could you actually propose something very different? You know, I would definitely say like what would it take for me to, to hit that place or that number in six months rather than two years? Like, what are the different ways that that could possibly happen and then start to reimagine, you know, like, okay, so what might be available to me and what could I what could I make happen even if that structure didn't exist before now.

Deborah Owens: [00:23:39] I really feel, Jonathan, at this time, everything is on the table because we're we're learning as we as we go through this. Organizations that used to say absolutely no one can work remote with that butts in the seats mentality, right, are now saying, yeah, you could work remote. Some companies are saying you never have to come back to the office. It's working. So I really do believe that everything is on the table. And just keep in mind that what organizations want to see is that one, they're not going to lose anything and that there's still a benefit, a win for them as well. But I think everything is on the table right now.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:28] Yeah. So agree with that. And I think, you know, if if Lea basically just does a little bit of visioning and says, okay, what would if I could make whatever reality I want to happen like next week, just paint the picture. What would that look like? What would I be doing? How would I be splitting my time? How would you know? What would I be saying yes to or no to? Um, and then push that out three months or six months and say, okay, so what do I need to do to make that my reality in, in the time frame that works for me? Not that's been sort of like handed down to me, by the way. Things have always been because like you just said, the way things have always been is kind of being blown up now. So it's this amazing moment for reimagining. Um, any final thoughts before we wrap? I think we've come pretty, pretty full circle on a lot of stuff.

Deborah Owens: [00:25:19] No, I actually think Lea's in a win win situation, right? Yeah. So if she stays with her original plan, it sounds like she'll be fine. But in addition to that, she has so many other options to consider, you know, does she want to change her work schedule? Does she want to change her employee status? Does she want to change how she originally structured this plan? So to your point, going to six months, right. But it's interesting, Jonathan, that everything always comes down to this clarity. What do you want and what do you need to feel good about that decision? Because if she's thinking about changing it, there's something about that current decision that may not be working for her any longer. And so what is that piece. Right. What is that based on? And that's why I'd love to in these sessions, I'd love to be able to to talk to the person. But I think it all comes down to clarity, right? What is most important? Is it having the money? Is it having the freedom? And again, she has the opportunity to do both and really get creative. And I love how you call it the experiment because it can be just that. Give it a try. See if it works. If it doesn't work, you still have more options. So I, I think I love it, I think it's a win win for her.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:47] Fantastic. I and I completely agree and I'm excited to see what unfolds. So Lea definitely stay in touch with us over time. Um, we want to see how you go from being SPARKED to being even more SPARKED. Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation. Thank you to all of our listeners. Um, it's always a joy to share your stories and to be able to to share hopefully valuable insights along the way. And we will see you next week. Hey! So I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life, and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life, take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It'll open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields production and editing by Sarah Harney on this episode.