How to Create Conscious Connection

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Jonathan Fields: [00:00:12] So how do we transcend us versus them? Thinking in turbulent times? How do we build bonds instead of walls, especially in work environments? Today, I'm speaking with leadership strategist Talia Fox, who joins me to explore, really, the skills that shape conscious connection. Talia is the CEO of Kusi Global, Inc ., a Harvard fellow with a master's in education from Howard, and with over 20 years of experience, she helps major organizations maximize human potential. In her forthcoming book, The Power of Conscious Connection, she shares her methodology for helping individuals and organizations foster deeply connected cultures. And in our conversation, Talia really takes us into the nightmare of disconnection that's plaguing our teams and work culture these days, and shares specific ideas and frameworks to transform noise and vitriol into understanding and connection. We talk about how to listen deeply, speak truth, and lead with an open mind instead of clenched fists and closed hearts and minds. And we explore how curiosity is a pathway to bridging vast differences and how we align our words with our values to bridge more divides. So excited to share this with you. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. You know, it's interesting, um, the work that you've been doing, it seems like it's really deeply personal for you. This is not just business as usual. This is something that emanates from who you are as a human being, from your heart, from your wisdom, from your intelligence. And early on, you talk about something that you describe as the nightmare, the nightmare of disconnection. Take me into what you're actually talking about when we use that phrase.

Talia Fox: [00:02:02] Yes. So when I think about the nightmare, I have had the opportunity to observe people. And as I'm observing them, I'm noticing that there is this screaming that's happening. Everybody's wanting to be heard. They're not listening to each other. I even see people arguing. And for the observer, you can see that they're making some very similar points around their values. But there is a commitment to the fight. So it's almost like we've been obsessed with the drama of it all. And in the moment it may feel stimulating. I think for some of us, we're even getting addicted to the stimulation. But what it is is that we're trapped in a nightmare, and some of it is of our own making when we're not connecting consciously and when we're not listening to each other. You know, Jonathan, this started when I was a very little girl. When my I tell this story in my book, my my father was denied service at a restaurant and at eight years old, I got on my tippy toes and I said, you'll seat my father. He's from the islands. And, you know, he was just experiencing some discrimination. And when I stood up for him, we got what we wanted. We got our meal comped at this restaurant. But I looked into my father's eyes and I saw shame and sadness. His eight-year-old daughter had to stand up for him. And then I looked at the hostess that basically completely ignored him, and she had sadness in her eyes. And so, just as a little girl at eight years old, I said, is anybody going to win here? Right? We're all just sad at the end. So my work is really about uplifting and working through with skills. That sadness.

Jonathan Fields: [00:03:29] Yeah. I mean, what do you think that sadness is about if we drill just one layer deeper, what's really happening here?

Talia Fox: [00:03:34] I think what's really happening is there's core needs that all human beings want. We want to feel valued. We want to feel heard. I think that there is a powerlessness epidemic going on where people feel like they're they can't make things happen for themselves, or they feel that there's a lot of injustice. And so when we're in that situation, I think that we're trying to cope with that by attacking each other and by having these arguments, even with family members, with our spouses, you know, and we forget that we're interdependent. We're all on the same team, and that if we could just put down, I use the word it's kind of old fashioned. Put our dukes down for just a moment. We begin to see that we all want the same thing. We want to be happy. We want to feel SPARKED. We want potential. We want possibilities. All the things that you talk about, that's the core. And so the key here is how do we remember that that's the core and hold ourselves accountable for not aligning with that core of who we are.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:34] Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because as you describe it, I'm nodding along saying, well, of course this is what we all want, right? And yet when most of us I don't want to say most of us, when so many of us step into day to day life, into work situations, into especially situations where there's either real or perceived conflict or the potential for real or perceived conflict, which I feel like is almost all the time these days, you know, whether it's work, personal culture, society, and some of it because they're very real things that we need to address, real harm being done. And yet, as you described so often, we step into it with this with a very binary mindset and with a dominance oriented, win oriented mindset. And it makes you wonder, even if you do, quote, get the win to what end? Like, what's the cost of that? You know, in our own humanity?

Talia Fox: [00:05:20] Absolutely. And here becomes the strategy I'll put my strategy hat and I'm a human being, but I'm always looking as a strategist, okay. If you're a leadership strategist, then you look at the world as your business, right? What would you need to do to impact or to achieve results? And the results for me is to feel alive and excited and for everyone to be able to, to, to carve out their own paths. And so here's where I think what we're missing. We have a world that's evolving and changing, that is very complex, and we think that it is just a natural experience to be able to get out of that. But we need to learn skills to connect in a world where disconnection has become the norm. And so I think just like education in schools, just like we have to learn new skills using the internet, computer, you know, social media, the skills of connection, the game is very different. And I think we literally have to have a mass movement of training ourselves in very specific things that support interdependence, connection, and that is going to be the key to getting out of the nightmare.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:22] Yeah. So you've developed a leadership model that shorthands as the acronym love, love. And I want to dive into like what each one of those elements represents to you. But immediately, I'm just so curious about this. I mean, is that a little bit when you show up, you know, like you do all of this as you describe strategic work and organizations and leadership. When you show up and when you're thinking about. Even while I'm developing this model, it's based on years of my own work and research and like, I know this works. I know this is what we need. And then it distills down to the word love. And then you're stepping into big corporate environments and people, you know, in echelons of power. And before we even dive into, like, what this model is and walk through it a bit, how does this land? Because love in the context of of this culture and dynamic, some people would probably be like, oh, this is a threat. This is a breath of fresh air. This is really different. And other people, I would imagine you walk in the door and there's an instant eye roll, whether they're expressing it or not, they're feeling it. Talk to me about sort of like why you have said, I don't really care. This needs to be centered in this way and in this language.

Talia Fox: [00:07:23] Jonathan, you've asked the question that I've hoped that other people would ask me because I agonized over this, actually. I mean, I'm I'm a pretty hardcore leadership strategist, and I do some pretty serious work. I will tell you, when I go into organizations, I have been using this model which is listening, observing, valuing, engaging. But all this time I didn't know that it made up the acronym Love because it was in a little bit of a different order, and it actually was just a coincidence, apparently, that this model that I've been using for strategy work, for everything else makes up this acronym. It's a good question of how it lands. I decided to write a book that's very vulnerable. I decided to write a book for the masses that really connects to who I am and represents my truth and my authenticity. And so far, I mean all of my really, you know, high level strategy clients. I am a little shocked. I thought I was wondering how it was going to land, but they've been very, very connected to it. And my hope is that any leader, even those very serious leaders that are into data and measurements, that they won't be turned off by the concept of love. And if they are, then this is the challenge that those that are not. We need to be able to bring these strategies and these skills into our organization. So, um, yeah, it's a tricky thing, but it's a very good question to see how that lands across the board in corporate America. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:46] And I just love that you're sort of like you said, rather than, well, let me sneak in the principles and then like, oh, by the way, it forms this acronym, which it sounds like for, you know, like this has been just a part of your methodology for years. Without that, you're just proactively saying like, let me actually center this and lead with this and let's have a conversation around it. If this rubs you the wrong way, why? You know, I would imagine that. Have you had that conversation with folks where there's resistance and you're kind of like, I'm just really curious, like, why do you feel like what's what's making you hesitant to step into like this?

Talia Fox: [00:09:19] Well, it's interesting, no one hesitates because I don't dive into the, you know, love has a reason I agonize over this is because there's a lot of connotation. People have some experiences, personal experiences, cultural experiences with the word love. That's why the fact that it makes that acronym, I think that it's very powerful. But when you dive into it, what I've tried to do in this book is take if you had to do 10,000 hours of leadership development and you had to think about leaders that have completely changed, transformed society in the world, what are the four key things that they have focused on to be able to get there? And so it's interesting. They focused on some very interesting skills, and the impact of their skills have been that they have been leaders that people have loved, and they also have achieved miraculous, world changing results. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, it's but when I go into organizations, I think that our work that we do at QC, QC global, that's another acronym that that we use, we love systems and models. I really think people are jarred by the instant ability to understand what's happening in their culture and the ability to quickly give them some very specific strategies and tools that they can use to make things better. So that seems to override their issues with the word love. So yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:39] And like you just described, who doesn't want, at the end of the day as a leader to be loved. Yeah. You know, because it means you're doing something. It means you're making a difference. Let's walk through these four different elements. You listed them out. But I want to dive into what each one of them a little bit. Listen is the first one. The L is for listen. And on the surface it seems, well, self-evident. Of course, listening has got to be a part of, you know, an effective and dignity centered and and responsive and high performance culture. But what's underneath that? Because I think we're not talking about superficial listening. I think the way that it gets thrown around, you're going a layer deeper here.

Talia Fox: [00:11:12] Yeah. So listening is a hard core skill that we need to invest time and hours to mastering. And the reason the whole book is about convincing you how that those hours and that time that you invest in listening is going to pay off just exponentially. So listening is your only portal to wisdom. It is the way that we connect. It is the way that we innovate. It is the way that we achieve everything. Yet the question is, do we have actual skills around? Listening. It is the core of emotional intelligence. It is in so many different cultural and spiritual wisdom that we hear and that we see. And it's this concept of really being able to tame the thoughts in our minds. And when I talk about listening, I'm not just talking about listening to others. I'm also talking about very deeply listening to yourself. What thoughts are happening in your mind and how much do you rely on those thoughts? How much do you trust those thoughts? And so a big part of this model is getting a hold on our squirrely brains and taking charge of what you're choosing to focus on, what you're choosing to listen to, and how you're taking in information. This model comes from not just research of many leaders, but I also, you know, I share the story about my Uncle Barry, who suffers from schizophrenia. And I was it's very interesting interacting with him because one day I realized, I said, what is the real core thing that's causing us not to be able to connect? Like what is the core of his illness? And I was like, oh, he can talk to me. But when I talk back to him, he can't process and connect back with me. And so I thought about some of my clients were how many people that don't have a diagnosed mental illness do that every day? They they someone's talking to them, but they're not able to process, and they're so triggered that they can't really engage and connect in a meaningful way.

Jonathan Fields: [00:12:58] Yeah. You talk about getting practical, um, exercises that because a lot of people are like, well, okay, I buy that, but how do I develop the skill of the art of shift and flow state exercises? Let's get a little bit more granular. Somebody's listening. Okay. So give me something to do that might be a first step in to get better at this.

Talia Fox: [00:13:16] Yeah. So I actually have recommended that people go on a 90 day listening diet. And so what this is, is that you're going to go into your office and into your meetings, whatever you have, even if it's on zoom, you will get away distractions. And you're going to listen for some very specific things. You're going to listen to words that communicate values. You're going to listen to things that your leaders repeat over and over. So they may talk about metrics. They may talk about productivity, they may talk about morale. But you're going to pay attention to the themes that are constantly coming up. You're going to pay attention to the people in your on your team that are always listened to. You're going to pay attention to little nuances if people are getting triggered. And so your goal is not just to kind of sit and passively listen. You are going to actively listen to gain wisdom about how things work in your organization. Some people have told me, and I've worked with thousands of clients where they feel that they already know what's going on. But when I give them this listening diet and some of it involves asking certain questions to they, they get amazing strategy and wisdom that changes everything. I mean, people after this 90 days, they end up, you know, getting promotions. They end up being the go to in their organization. Because I'll tell you, in this day and age, if you want to have an edge and be the smartest one on your team, people are so distracted by simply listening, you can transform all of it. I have in the book several questions to ask other people when you're interacting with them, so you can listen to the answers, and then several things to look out for when you're on these meetings, so that you can gain that wisdom to make a difference.

Jonathan Fields: [00:14:53] Yeah, I love that. And I like the 90 day window is really interesting also. Right. Because I feel like it's short enough that it's doable, but it's long enough. So you really going to get a depth and breadth of input. Whereas if you just said, let me do this for seven days, you're kind of going to get a thin slice. And I would imagine you probably experimented with that window a little bit. Yes.

Talia Fox: [00:15:13] I love the questions that you asked. Because yes, the 90 days, when you think about the number of meetings that people have, you're looking for patterns. And so you want to have enough of a window so that you can say, yes, this is absolutely a pattern. This isn't a one off. If you're not seeing patterns, then you're going to listen for and potentially observe how things are shifting. But instead of talking so much, you're really going to be a question asker and a listener. And that alone will just give you a lot of wisdom. And you need about 90 days. I mean, you know, there's a lot of things in there, depending on how many times you meet and what's going on in your world. But that's the magical window.

Jonathan Fields: [00:15:47] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So we move from there. The oh and the model is is observe. And it's interesting. Right. Because I think a lot of what you were describing as listening, a lot of people would think about observing as being really similar. But so how is this distinct from listening?

Talia Fox: [00:16:05] So listening is a charge for us to almost meditate and quiet our minds so that we can stop our own chatter, stop even our self-limiting thoughts, and take in information. Observation is about becoming a master systems thinker. And what that is, is that you are looking for inputs. This is what you're observing. You're absorbing inputs and outputs. And so once you listen you can actually begin to say things. So for example, let's say someone is continually talking about metrics and you learn that that's the values in your organization. And so now you start to talk about metrics and you see people's eyes light up. Right. So you say oh wow okay. There's measurement in this organization is high value. And so I'm going to focus on that when I speak. This is what I'm going to use to get attention and to be heard. Or you might observe when I use the word metrics, people roll their eyes. That outcome is that you observe that when the leaders talk about metrics, they get a positive outcome. When you talk about talk about metrics, you get a negative outcome. So now it's time to observe again. Listen again and see if there's another thing that you need to try. So it's kind of like using life as this experimental world where you're really figuring out what is real and what works. Yeah. In life, that's observation.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:23] That makes a lot of sense to me. And it's almost like it sounds like you're you're starting to step more into scientist mode. You're like almost like, let me posit these different things or try these different things or offer these different things, in part because I like there are things that I feel are important to share, but also with a certain amount of almost disconnection from them, because part of what you're doing is, is just saying, let me really pay attention to how these are landing, because there's information in that. Yes. And that's going to help inform everything.

Talia Fox: [00:17:49] It's so true. You know, just like I observed my Uncle Barry, I observed Sherlock Holmes. I was watching that, you know, watching the movie one time. And I'm like, what makes him so smart is that he's just naturally like that. And if you watch these kinds of movies, detectives and people, what makes them so smart is their capacity to notice very small details. And so in this world, because things are constantly changing, I think we look at something, then we make assumptions and we just move on as if that's the solution. But as the world evolves, we have to keep observing and see how things are changing. We have to pay attention and adjust our strategy along the way. So observation gives you that flexibility to do so.

Jonathan Fields: [00:18:29] Yeah. Would you recommend in this process of sort of experimenting with observation, almost like running a series of experiments that are designed to inquire, to answer the question, what's underneath that? So it's like, oh, I offered this thing in a meeting and I noticed that people leaned forward. They leaned back. Right. So okay, so that's experiment number one. Like I observed that it gave me new data that I didn't know coming into this. What can I then what can my next offering be, or what can the next thing that I might offer into the same community to say, to try and generate a response that would start to reveal what's underneath that initial observation so I can drill down and down and down to like, what's the core of what's really happening here? Yeah.

Talia Fox: [00:19:14] So with the observation, the observation can actually be the the soil in which your questions are grown for your listening. Right. So if you try some things based on assumptions based on other questions, and you see, wow, this isn't what I thought, now you can say, hey, you know, is this am I right here? This is what I'm observing. What it ends up doing is it gives you this really sharp, tight professionalism around your interests in what matters, your interest in what works, your interest in other people. So you have the power. And this is what the book is called, the power of conscious connection. Your conscious about what's going on in the world and around you, and you're connected to the choices that you can make to impact those results. So really, really important there. So you continue to listen and then you observe and you you experiment and you go back. And so it's this whole beautiful system that requires practice and requires presence.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:10] Yeah. Two really, really important words there. And you use the word just before that. What matters. And part of what matters is human beings. Right. And that kind of leads us to the third element value, which is the role of valuing ourselves, the role of valuing others. And I feel like this has become something that it's a point that a lot of people are really dipping back into, especially over the last 3 or 4 years, because there's been so much disruption. People are really reexamining how they're spending their work and life and really wondering like, am I valued? Do I matter? Do I feel like I matter to to myself? Does the work that I'm doing matter? What is the value that? I feel like I'm providing both to the the entity, the outcome, but also in the context of taking care of myself. So I thought it was really interesting that you folded this into the model. Yes.

Talia Fox: [00:21:01] So the way that this model works is you have to kind of have the foundation of figuring out what's going on. So you're listening and observing. And now the values is where you dig into. By the way, I took four behaviors, but we packed a lot in there. Right. So it's the values are aligning with what's important to you. So that means holding yourself accountable to the behaviors that match your values, even in the face of things that that kind of violate those values. That's the key thing. I think a lot of us know about values. We want to make different decisions. But when you're in a situation where someone is being rude to you because you're justified in being rude back, is that does that violate your values or does that align with your values? Right. So this alignment I think is really critical. The other piece of value is this idea of cultural competence. So if we are going to be more connected, if we're going to think about humanity, if we're going to achieve this interdependence, we have to be able to understand that people are different, be able to listen and observe without feeling so attached to the choices that other people are making, and to adjust our behavior to operate more effectively, more harmoniously across different cultures, across different ideas, across different ways that we operate. I mean, it's very interesting that as human beings, we expect and are drawn to those like us. Right? But the richness of this world, I find that to be a little bit boring. Right? We're just running from agitation as opposed to running to curiosity.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:35] Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting also that I was listening recently to a neuroscientist sharing how we like to tell ourselves that the like that we want, um, like mindedness, like kindness, like we want to be around the same types of experiences, the same types of people, the same environments. And yet when you actually look at what happens in the brain, we kind of numb out really quickly. Our experience of life, of work, of interactions. It goes gray really quickly when we're in those places where we feel like that's what, you know, we really want, and it is the difference. It's the novelty. It's the wow, like, this is somebody who I never I know nothing about them. Their background, their history, their culture. I'm a little bit uncomfortable. And yet that's the place where your brains light up, you know, that's where the new, the different, the magic happens. If we would only just put ourselves in a position where we're a little bit uncomfortable so that we can actually go there and grow and learn and connect in a different way.

Talia Fox: [00:23:34] Yeah, it's kind of like there's a hack for being happy, right? I mean, the hack is, you know, to be awake and present, you're listening and taking in information. You're able to use your brain in a very smart and strategic way by observing you're aligning with what's important to you. And then you have this great curiosity by getting to just know and be exposed to different cultures and people. It's like when you're doing all of that, how can you not at the end have a have a brain that's SPARKED. I mean, you use that word, right? How can you not feel the excitement about life? And I do think that we are unintentionally, at times depriving ourselves of that experience.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:13] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Which brings us to the final element in this model E which stands for engage and. This is where you also center the notion of stories and storytelling as something which is really key in this context.

Talia Fox: [00:24:29] Yeah, I love there's a firm I use, became a story collector and a connection chef is the words, and engagement is about mastering how you communicate in a way that is very much focused on the connection, the power of us being awake and alive and connecting with each other is because together we can really accomplish some amazing things. I do an experiment or an exercise in a lot of my classes, where I have people raise their hand and give a dream and they may say, you know, I tell them the biggest dream they can think of. So I had a person one time say that they wanted to go to India to train Bengali tigers. And then I had another person stand up and say, well, I want to do yoga in India. At the end of this class that I did many, many years ago, these two people actually got together and went to. They didn't quit their jobs, but they went to India together and did some yoga and went to visit a place in which they could see the tigers. But it was amazing. By just waking up and talking and engaging, being able to articulate and share your values, being able to ask questions about goals, the power of that is really critical. I do think many of us, if you get on meetings, the ability to communicate with clarity with conciseness is really been hindered, has really been hindered. In the book, I give a very clear outline and model of how to organize yourself and your mind, to be able to be more connected, and to be able to express yourself in a way that feels aligned with who you are. And I'll use this word again. What matters to you?

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:08] Yeah. So if we sort of zoom the lens out on this model a little bit and we look at the times that we're in right now where they're just all these profound disruptions and shifts in work, both in culture, but also in the actual technical dynamics of work, the biggest of which, or at least one of the biggest of which is, you know, five years ago, a tiny fraction of people were working remotely, and it was janky. And you had to go through like, get your system wired up properly now, because we've all had to learn to use all the other tools, and the tools have gotten so much better. There's a huge shift. So now some people are at work, some people are at home, some people are doing the dance of a little bit of this, a little bit of that. How do you feel that this change in sort of like the physical structure of work affects what you're trying to accomplish by this model?

Talia Fox: [00:26:55] So I'll give a technical observation very quickly. And that is when people are getting on meetings now, they really the expectation to be more organized is higher. Right? So being able to come on and say, you know, this is what's important for us today, we're going to focus on three core ideas, and this is how we're going to run this show. You almost have to produce the experience virtually. That I think is really important when it comes to conscious connection. It's really you can observe on zoom, you can actually decide that you're going to set up. I recommend no more than 15 minutes. You send someone an email and say, do you have 10 or 15 minutes? I'd love to ask you a couple of questions, but here's the key here. With the love system, it's very intentional. You don't get on and just shoot the breeze. Yeah. So how are things going? You get on with some very clear, a very clear intention and deliberate strategy for the kinds of things you want to learn about them. Yes, you can carve out time just to be and to connect with each other. That's fine. But I think in the workplace respect the idea that time is limited, and to be super organized and clear about the way that we can connect and how we can potentially work together.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:04] Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. And I like that. You also started out by by by describing how sometimes this technology has actually made us really think through how we're going to use that time more effectively and structure it better. I know it's a huge shift when spoken for years and when everything flipped to virtual for a couple of years, all of a sudden the expectations of organizers and prep calls changed dramatically. And they were asking me, okay, so we're all going to be on this virtual thing for 45 minutes. You're not just going to speak to them or at them for 45 minutes, right? Because we've all learned that that is a brutal experience. What are you building into this 45 minute window to draw people in and to engage them? And I completely I had to strip down and rebuild the way that I would do things to like in the first 2 to 3 minutes, like there's a mechanism that I would use depending on the platform to engage people, to use a poll or see the question that would be answered in a chat, so that it would make it much more interactive, way more interactive than a live keynote in, you know, an audience would ever have been. And I found that while I assumed beforehand that it would be a worse experience, often it was actually much more engaging and much more enriching, and I think people were drawn in. In a way that I never really realized was possible, but it was because, as you described, when you really take the time to rethink, how can I actually use this technology to connect even more deeply rather than have it separated us? There are just huge opportunities that are available to us.

Talia Fox: [00:29:39] Yes. Well, and you know, again, I'll bring up the systems thinking it really depends. Sometimes we use technology and we might have polls and all of these exercises and it goes over well. Other times there are a variety of different ways that you might be able to engage people. If you know them really well and you understand what what is guiding them and what they need for that 45 minutes, I know for me, I did a lot of telecast keynotes over time, and so I took something from the playbook in peloton. I started doing warm up inspiration. I told some stories, I would ask rhetorical questions, which sort of was a polling type experience, but I used the feeling of peloton. For those out there that are peloton riders, you get warmed up and excited, but then you have some real good hard exercises and then you have a cooldown. And so I started to get creative. Depending on what the platform was about, speaking and taking people through an experience that felt like a ride. But I spent hours thinking through that, right? I put in the time because I was. It was important to me to be conscious and connected to the people that were listening.

Jonathan Fields: [00:30:48] Yeah, I love that. So coming full circle in our conversation, what do you want people to really leave the conversation around your model and the book with? Like if, if you're thinking about, we're in a moment in time right now where a moment in work or in a moment in culture where this can really speak to you in a very particular way, can speak to something that's going on right now. What do you feel is like the big thing that you want people to not just know but embody?

Talia Fox: [00:31:15] So the biggest thing and it's interesting again, that the acronym is love, but it's the the key here in the world that we're living in today is that I would love for people just to slow down, not be so arrogant and connected to the rightness of their thoughts, to clean their minds and begin to listen, start to like, pay attention to what's going on around you. Really take a beat to think about what's important and get the skills. Don't kind of under. Some of this seems so simple, but you need the skills to be able to support yourself and others in communicating in a way that works. And so the embodiment is humility around the fact that you may not know exactly how to do this, but then also slowing down and being present enough so that you can kind of take in and understand what's going on for yourself and to connect better with others.

Jonathan Fields: [00:32:13] Mm. Thank you so much for your wisdom, for your insights, for the work that you've been doing. And to our fabulous listeners, thanks so much for tuning in.

Talia Fox: [00:32:20] Thank you. Jonathan.

Jonathan Fields: [00:32:23] Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life, and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life, take the time to discover your own personal sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It'll open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode.