How to Have Patience in the Face of Uncertainty

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Guest: [00:00:05] Into how I can find a role that matches my skills, that is, in a supportive organizational culture, and that allows me to be with my family.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:17] For today's lesson, Anne-Marie shares a story of her job scouting that is aiming to strike the ideal balance between role and organization fit, skill set, match and desirable location. And I know so many can relate to that quest. She expresses her frustration with the apparent lack of appealing options and asks, is there a way to reframe this situation? And Marie puts forth a query. How do you find niche industry roles that match your search criteria, and is there a way to look outside the box? If you're feeling discouraged with that process? An on deck with me from the SPARKED Brain Trust to help tease out what really matters and share insights and ideas is Jenny Blake. Jenny is a podcaster, career and business strategist, and an award winning author of three books Life After College, The groundbreaking pivot for Navigating What's Next, and her recently published free Time for Optimizing What's Now. And quick note you'll hear us mention something we call Sparketypes in conversation. What is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. Your sparketype when you discover yours, everything makes so much more sense. And until you know yours well, we're all kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. Now on to Marie's story and question. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.

Guest: [00:01:49] Hi, Jonathan, my name is Marie and I use she her pronouns. My primary Sparketype is essentialist, my shadow is Maven and my anti Sparketype is nurturer. I agree with those results. I love creating order from chaos and I'm very process driven. But while I care deeply about humanity, I find direct care to individuals to be draining. Until about a year ago, I was in a role that matched my Sparketype in many ways. There were some challenging organizational dynamics, but the role itself generally fit. Then, in 2021, the organization went through a difficult transition that resulted in me having four bosses in less than a year. Given the nature of my role, this had a very direct impact on my work and on me personally. By last spring, I was burned out. Every self-assessment I took said you might be burned out if 2 or 3 of these statements are true, but I was consistently checking every box. It was time for a change and I started applying for jobs. By the end of last summer, I had accepted an offer and moved to a new role. In retrospect, I realised that I took the first job I was offered because I was burned out and desperate for a change. The job I moved to looks really good on paper, but it's not a good fit. I'm not doing work that is aligned with my Sparketype, and once I recovered from the effects of the previous year, I realized that I'm just not where I want to be.

Guest: [00:03:13] I've tried to think about ways to reframe my situation and even redesign in place. But another factor is my living situation to accept the role, I moved to a new city by myself and am living away from my partner for a variety of reasons. We're only able to see each other about once every six weeks. While my partner does have some flexibility with work and could likely relocate, we've paused serious consideration of that because the job itself is such a poor fit, as is the organisation. Organization. I'm also living in a place with a high cost of living while I make decent money. It's not really enough to sustain two households for long, so I know I want to make a change, to have more fulfillment in my work, and so that I can maintain my relationship and not drain my finances. But I feel stuck. In addition to knowing my Sparketype, I think it's also helpful to know that I place a lot of value on my career. I've been the higher wage earner and I'm just more compelled than my partner to pursue formal employment where I find meaning and fulfillment based on my Sparketype. I think I know the type of role I want, and it's very similar to the role I left last year.

Guest: [00:04:21] The challenge is that it's a very specific role in a narrow industry, and there aren't many openings or the openings I do find are in places that I don't find to be the most desirable. And while hybrid is becoming more common, my expertise is in an industry that does still require some in-person presence. So I look at job boards every day, and I've been meeting with people to try to help expand my network, but I'm just not finding jobs that both match the role I am looking for, and are in a place where both my partner and I want to live. I feel really discouraged and I'm not sure how to find my way forward. I worry that I've created a false dichotomy, where I'm only able to see my options as finding a job that's aligned with my strengths and is meaningful, but that takes me away from my family. Or I can be with my family if I'm willing to do a job that doesn't really make me come alive. I'm hoping that you and the SPARKED Brain Trust can offer some insights into how I can find a role that matches my skills, that is, in a supportive organizational culture, and that allows me to be with my family. Or at the very least, maybe you can help me reframe my situation to better see what possibilities might be available.

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:39] Hey, and before we dive into today's episode, a quick share. So if you're a coach, a consultant, or a leader and you would just love to stand out more in 2024 and beyond, with a powerful new credential and a set of results driven superpowers, we have got something for you. With nearly a million people now discovering their profiles, the Sparketypes have become a global phenomenon. People want their work to light them up, and oftentimes they would love some help along the way, which is why we developed our certified Sparketype Advisor training. As a certified Advisor, you will discover cutting edge tools that spark profound work life. Client transformations stand out with a highly unique credential and skill set in a crowded market. Find ease and flexibility with templated engagement flows, you'll become a part of a global network of change makers, and you'll rack up 40 ICF continuing education credits our fall cohort is enrolling now with visionaries just like you, and we would love to invite you to uplevel your capabilities as a coach or consultant or leader by becoming a certified Sparketype advisor. To learn more about the fall training and see if it's right for you, just click the link in the show notes now or visit sparketype.com. Slash pros. Okay. Jenny Blake. So this is a really interesting circumstance that Marie is sharing with us on a number of different levels. I feel like it's sort of like it draws a lot on both of our bodies of work in different ways. Before we get into some of the more granular stuff, do you sort of like a meta take on any of this?

Jenny Blake: [00:07:17] My meta take is that Marie is mid pivot. She is in the thick of it and sometimes I refer to this as an interim pivot or even a leapfrog one where she knows what she wants. She needed to make a move to get out of the situation that was really dragging her down and burning her out. And kudos Marie. She's already doing things and taking steps, but definitely this one. What I admire is that she's crystal clear. This isn't it. So she tried. She landed something and then realized maybe it's not the right location or it's not the right organization or role, but at least things are moving. And I always say and I say in pivot, decisions are data. So she's collecting more data, and now she's just at that inevitable point that so many pivots experience where you're pretty clear, but the opportunity just hasn't materialized yet, and it often takes longer than you think or that you want it to. And that can be so stressful. Just wondering, is the right role ever going to open up? And we're in a weird lull right now, at least at the time of this recording where a lot of companies have pulled back on hiring. So I feel like that perfect role is out there, or at least a really great fit role for her strengths. She's just in the thick of navigating her way to finding it, but I say doing a lot of the right things.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:30] Yeah, I love that take and I agree with you. I think we're we're in a really interesting moment right now where and this is something I was speaking about, you know, a year, a year and a half ago when everyone was talking about the, quote, great resignation or however you want to phrase it. And my big concern whenever I was asked about it was that for for many people, it would turn into the great regret. And and that doesn't mean that I was saying like, don't make a change. What I was saying is I'm I was seeing people make changes really quickly, largely to remove themselves from a source of current pain. And I totally understand that. And there are some, some scenarios where it's it's like it's very real and it's very necessary to do that, even if you don't know if the thing that you're, um, removing yourself into is going to be better. And I think for like almost a generation, a lot of work choices, you know, to stay in toxic scenarios or unfulfilling or unsatisfying scenarios were more about like, the devil, you know. You know, people are like, well, yes, it's not checking this box or I'm not super happy, but at least I kind of know the deal here. And I don't want to take a leap out or step out and go into the unknown and try something new, because it could be even worse. And then the pandemic like turn, turn that entirely upside down. And then everyone was sort of like, oh, you know, um, the devil that I know actually is not good enough.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:51] And for some reason, I have confidence now that there is something more meaningful out there. And a lot of people took steps out. So it's not just Marie, like a lot of people took steps out and a lot of people took steps out. The data is now starting to show that a lot of people took steps out in the back of their mind, kind of even knowing that the thing that they're saying yes to next isn't necessarily the thing that they really want to be moving into. It was like a bridge. Yes. And now so many folks are in this position where they're like, okay, so I got out of the old scenario. I'm in this new space. It's becoming clear that, in fact, you know, this is an interim step. It's not sort of like the the next big step. It's the next baby step. And now they kind of like, you know, like, okay, so where do I go from here? But there's a psychology that I think maybe we could speak that I want to lay out there also, which is this sometimes there can be a sense of shame in making this decision, going somewhere else, having it not magically be just like profoundly different and wonderful and happy and giddy. And there's in my mind, you know, I kind of want to just obliterate that notion of having shame around that decision in any way. I'd love to hear your take on that.

Jenny Blake: [00:10:53] I love that you mentioned that. I've been feeling that five times this week. You know, I think whenever somebody has the courage to make a move, there's risk attached. And until that pans out and there's some measure of, quote success, however you define it a million times, you're going to ask yourself, am I crazy? Did I do the wrong thing? Did I make the wrong move? Am I an idiot? You know? And I just love that you're speaking to that and that natural curve. I saw a meme from a site called Visualize value.com and it says failure is the frame, not the picture. And the frame is of. Imagine a stock chart that has a big crash and then it rebounds. But if you only frame the crash, you're judging something before it's finished. And when you were describing I love the bridge decision. You know, building the bridge I almost thought of like Murray has loosened the jar, loosened the lid on a tight, burnout inducing, constricting situation. She loosened the lid. The lid is not off yet. You know, this middle move loosened the lid. At least she's out of the what seemed like a pretty bad situation. And that's not easy to do. Like you said, leaving the devil you know. And it's just too early. She's just in the thick of it. Now, I'm curious if you have had those times where you just took a made a bridge move bridge decision. If you can think of a time so.

Jonathan Fields: [00:12:14] Many.

Speaker5: [00:12:14] Times, all the.

Jenny Blake: [00:12:15] Time.

Jonathan Fields: [00:12:16] So you know when when you know, I, you and I both made interesting moves like it's now in the pretty distant past for both of us, but from big organizations into starting our own ventures. And we've each then repeated that in a number of different iterations, a number of times over. And for sure, like I remember times where I was like, you know, how could I have left, you know, prestige and power and money and status for this? When? Every night. I don't know if I'm going to make payroll the next day. I don't know what's happening in rent. You know, the early days of being a founder are brutally hard, and you're questioning yourself constantly and wondering if you just go back and get a job again. Um, so I think there's this mythology that even like founders or entrepreneurs don't do that. They're, you know, like just wired for uncertainty and risk taking. And it's like, no, we're just human beings and we're just we're trying something and trying to do the work to breathe through it and be okay. But yeah, I think, I think we all experience that with the exception of this really narrow, thin slice of human beings that are just genuinely wired differently. And often those people are held up as like the the bastions of aspiration and like the people whose stories are told in media. And you're like, no, actually, they're the profound outliers. And to try and like, live into that story almost guarantees misery for the vast majority of other people. But yeah, I think we're we're all in this space together. And I know you have moved through like numerous cycles like that as well.

Speaker5: [00:13:42] I was just.

Jenny Blake: [00:13:42] Looking at job listings. I think for the first time in 11 years, the company I left was Google, and just the other day I said, what jobs does Google have? I was so curious and I think it was because of my brother suggested, well, you know, when I really hit a dip, he's like, well, you could always go back. And for 11 years that's been the mantra, not that Google would even take me anymore and I still partner with them as a consultant. But I was like, maybe I'll go be an E for Google X again if they would even take me. And then I ultimately came back to, okay, I'll be an E for myself and I'll keep trying. But as you said, we go through dips to even those of us that look like we're in the pocket of that sparketype work match. And I think part of the reason for that, especially now, I just want to acknowledge the bigger context that we're all in as well, which is that the snow globe shakeup of the last few years is still shaking. You know? Sure, we got through the first year of the pandemic was a certain type of fear and uncertainty, and then now it's just more on the economic side.

Jenny Blake: [00:14:42] But I feel like the great cosmos are still shaking the snow globe, and the fact that Marie is unsettled and is not finding exactly the right thing yet, is true for so many of us, because anyone who had the courage and chutzpah to kind of leave a situation means that we're trying to land on ground that isn't solid yet, and that's often where opportunity lies. Something will materialize, but we're all those of us who have shaken things up. There's not I don't there's just not really as much solid ground to stabilize yet. And the question is, can you hang in there? Can you hang in there with your self-talk? Can you hang in there with keeping? She's doing all the right things of looking at opportunities and having conversations with people we know. Still, I think something like 85%, um, plus or minus percent of jobs still come from someone, you know. And then the other thing I would say is that what Marie's trying to do sometimes when I get really stuck and I hit a wall like, she's at this, I really feel that I'm not getting any traction. I will sometimes step back and say, what am I meant to learn here? So I'll do that.

Jenny Blake: [00:15:48] Main character in a movie question if Marie is the main character in a movie and we're all watching with our popcorn in suspense and we're watching her go to that interim pivot and it doesn't quite work out, and now there's all these other factors to consider. And her partner in the city that she lives in, maybe this stuckness is speaking to you or speaking to Murray. And what is it trying to say? Maybe there is another shift, whether it's internal or shift in the approach, but I just sometimes will take this as a sign of yes, maybe I am meant to look at this problem from some different angle than the one that I currently am, in a way that would open things up or make it feel a little more joyful or a little more spacious, even if all that is is permission that you know what? Okay, Marie says to herself, I don't need to have another job until 2023. Would that relax things? You know? Would just putting it farther out timeline on the expectation of it all? Maybe that alone would relieve some of the pressure.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:41] Yeah. Which brings up some interesting questions from that. Um, which is especially focused around Murray's particular Sparketypes. So her primary Sparketype is the essentialist. So that impulse is all about creating order from chaos. You know, this is systems process, utility, clarity. And so there's an impulse to know where you're going to know what the steps are to build the system and the process around that. And when we have to apply that to our own journey at a time where the world is messy and chaotic and we actually cannot control a whole bunch of the variables, you know, the average person in general just really struggles with this moment. But my take has been like the essentialist in particular, especially when looking at things where you feel like, oh, well, this is my path, it's my journey, it's my career. These are the things where I should really have maximum control over these things. So I'm not relying on other teams or resources or this and that. So like, there are a lot of shoulds that can come into the process when you're wiring is is as an essentialist. And Jenny, I happened to know that you share a primary Sparketype with Marie. So I'm curious whether you think that that particular imprint or sparketype affects this process.

Speaker5: [00:17:49] Also, I do.

Jenny Blake: [00:17:50] Yes, I share the essentialist and maven piece of it, and I think the Maven piece speaks to why it's so uncomfortable to be bored. Like if you're bored at work or buried in bureaucracy, you're going to be miserable because the maven wants to be learning and growing and contributing. And the essentialist. I think job transition is particularly tricky for essentialist for exactly the reason you said, Jonathan. There's not the satisfaction that you have total control over the process or can even harness the chaos. The chaos is out there and sometimes it feels almost like dating. I was a very unsuccessful dater or relationship person for all of my 20s, and certainly prior to that, and it was like I just felt that I was in kindergarten when everyone else was. I had graduated college, the college level, how to be in a relationship or find one, even find one. And so those two areas can be so vexing sometimes because you're doing all the things and if nothing materializes, it's easy to feel very stuck. You know, you you so generously included me in your book, Jonathan, about organizing and color coding my bookshelf. That's so satisfying as an as an essentialist, because it's tangible, it's tactile. You can sit there, there's a start middle and an end. You can put all the books on the floor. And by the time you leave someone, I've done it for friends.

Jenny Blake: [00:19:02] By the time I leave their house, the the bookshelf is just beautiful and exquisite and pleasing to the eye. But this process isn't that way. This process. You're at the mercy of the recruiters and the hiring managers, and then chance. And then oh, you you. I've had friends who've come down to like the top three candidates over and over and over again, and it didn't materialize. But I will say that I always saw those friends land somewhere great. It just often took 2 or 3 times longer than they thought and with a whole lot more heartache and disappointment in the middle. And the worst part about job hunting as well that I hear lately is the ghosting. Sometimes you don't even get a reason. Oftentimes you don't even get a reason of why something isn't working out or you don't have visibility into, you know, Maureen mentioned there's a really narrow kind of niche and type of role and location that she wants. The good news is she's clear on it. The harder part of it is just it's going to take time because you don't have visibility of when are they even going to post those roles. And so it's a maddening process. You're she's just not alone in experiencing all the frustrations that come with this process. And I still know she's going to find something. It's just a matter of timing.

Speaker5: [00:20:11] Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:11] And it's interesting also because, you know, like what Marie shared also is that, you know, she is seems to be the person who, you know, is is a primary earner. Not that her partner isn't also, but, um, it's something that has been centered and sounds like it's important to her. Also, it may be part of her values to, you know, like have a certain level of financial security. And that's that often leads people to make trade offs. Um, and the trade off that often is made is, you know, financial security in exchange for a full expression of the deeper impulses that make you come alive. And the invitation is the challenge is always can you find both? And if so, what would that look like? And it sounds like she's doing all the things, like she's looking on the board. She's doing all the things to see, you know, because like, clearly like earning a sufficient living is important to her. Understandably so is it sounds like increasingly, these last few years have shown her that she kind of wants more of a flexible work environment, but a lot of the type of work that she's doing, she was saying, requires sort of like full time in person, even though a lot of the world has shifted into more of a hybrid mode. And it sounds like there's also this tension between, you know, because she's now geographically in a different place than her partner and that, you know, causes its own level of navigation and sometimes some level of, of unhappiness.

Jonathan Fields: [00:21:27] So the other thing that really came to me is I think it's kind of what you're saying, Jenny also is around really just creating this space to pause, to step back from being in it. And it sounds like she is so in it and like, so action oriented and like, let me pursue this in a way that makes sense to me, which is amazing. And at the same time, sometimes the clarity in these moments really comes from letting go of the reins a little bit, letting go of the systems and the process and the step by step, like, this is what you do to get to this place in this way. And just taking a step back and breathing and saying, huh, like, is there something happening here that I'm not even aware of because I'm so in it? Like our good friend, member of the SPARKED Brain Trust, uh, has repeated to both of us numerous times. He can't read the label from inside the jar. And I think so many of us were. We just don't take a lot of time, like, sort of like stepping outside the jar and really looking down and saying, what's really happening here? You know, it goes back to your sort of movie question earlier, like, you know, like, what is there a lesson that I'm like, I should be learning right now? And the whole audience knows the lesson because they're on the outside looking in.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:34] But when you're inside, when you're in the thick of it, when you're the protagonist, oftentimes we just don't have the space. So I think, you know, what's the lesson to learn is really interesting. But also I find it really effective to try and sort of like hit pause, step out, even just to create a little bit of space in each day, like going for walks and not listening to anything, making it non-professional, just to kind of breathe and see what bubbles up in your brain. And one of the seeds that I tend to plant questions is, what are the assumptions that I'm making? And are they true? And I don't necessarily actively look for answers. You know, what I'll do is I'll plant that seed. Like I may go for a hike, as I'm want to do, you know, for an hour and a half. And before I go out there, I may just, you know, like, maybe I've been grappling with a really big challenge or problem or question, and I'll just kind of plant the seed myself. It'll be like, what are the assumptions that I've been making about this circumstance? And are they true? And the third thing, and this kind of we're borrowing a little bit from Byron Katie's the work here is like where's what is the evidence for and against. You you know, and just let your brain kind of noodle on that.

Jenny Blake: [00:23:38] And how do you feel when you think those thoughts? Totally. I love oh my gosh, the work has been so helpful for me. Sorry to interrupt you. I got so excited when you were saying when you were saying about that, because I think what I find so powerful about the work and the series progression of questions that she says is a meditation, that any stressful thought is an alarm clock waking you up to something that is probably not true. And so when you think the thought like she's talked about, Marie mentioned the false dichotomy she already knows deep down because she called it a false dichotomy, like I'm stuck, or it's either this or that. Is that true? And how do you feel when you think that thought stuck, frustrated, upset, you know, regretful. And so, yeah, I love I love what you're saying, Jonathan, about questioning those assumptions. And then the fun part of the work is creating all the turnarounds. Like, I'm not stuck, you know, I'm exactly where I should be. I'm on the right track.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:34] Yeah, I love that. Um, and and I find it at least in my work. Um, that for me, getting down to an assumption level tends to always be the really big unlock key, because very often it's not the actual fact that's limiting me. It's the assumption that I'm making about the fact. And then once I can test that and I start to realize, huh, well, this is interesting. Some of it is true, some of it is 100% true, but some of it is not. And if not, like what doors does that open? What maybe like a truer reality? So anyway, I think you and I could go round on this for a while, but I see there's something else that you want to share, and then I think we'll wrap it up.

Speaker5: [00:25:16] Yeah, I.

Jenny Blake: [00:25:16] Have one more thought on this, which is kind of zooming out at a meta level. I heard on the Abraham-hicks podcast, I don't know how I found it, someone just mentioned they listen every day. She they said all problems are life giving. And I try to remind myself that whether you work within a company or you're an entrepreneur, you always have problems. Like it's so easy to feel stuck navigating corporate life, and it's so easy to feel stuck as an entrepreneur. And then so the question is, and what I've been asking myself is, what is my relationship to feeling stuck? Or what is my relationship to feeling like a failure, or to feeling like I don't know what to do next? And I try to remind myself that if I can find peace within the problem, then the problem becomes a creative exercise. And that's actually the fun part. And I just have to get this in something. I have some little intuitive hit for Marie, and I could be totally wrong, but sometimes when I feel when I felt like my corporate job wasn't the end all be all, it was very satisfying to pick something, even if it's something small, and do it on the side, like starting a blog or starting a book club. Something that I felt. And I just have a sense that maybe for Marie, applying her essentialist maven in a really juicy, delightful way, even if she doesn't earn money from it, might relieve some of the pressure of not having landed the right, quote, day job yet that maybe there is some form of expression, even if it's an hour a week or gathering people I don't know. It depends what what resonates, but that can be joyful that that isn't tied to this job search. Because the job, the job search can be tiring and feel heavy, and not to mention maintaining the one she currently has. So I would just offer that as well as food for thought. Is is there something that you can scratch your own itch of the sparketype expression no matter who's paying your bills?

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:08] Love that. And I think that is a great place to wrap up. Also. Jenny, thanks so much Maria. I hope this has been helpful in all of our wonderful listening community. While you may have a slightly different wiring, a lot of these ideas and questions are really broadly applicable to all of us, so I hope there's something for you to noodle on and grow with as well. Thanks to everyone for showing up this week. We will see you again next week. Take care everyone! Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life, and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life, take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.