How to Stop Playing Small (or too safe)

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:09] So have you ever felt that nagging sense that you're just capable of achieving so much more, of doing so much more, yet you held yourself back because taking a leap felt too risky, too unsafe. I know that I have done that in the past. We all have big dreams inside of us, of launching that business, asking for a promotion, or finally working up the courage to leave an unfulfilling job. But so often we shy away from fully pursuing those dreams because we worry about stability, acceptance from others, or our own self-doubt. So what's happening here? And how do we navigate these moments? To dig into these questions, in this week's SPARKED Hot Take episode, we're in conversation with Braintrust member Deborah Owens, an executive coach and corporate trainer with 20 years of experience working with fortune 500 companies. She helps professionals, particularly women of color, navigate workplace barriers and advocate for themselves more effectively. And Deborah is also the founder of Corporate Alleycat, a global community focused on elevating and empowering women of color. In today's episode, Deborah and I have a vulnerable conversation around why we sometimes play it safe when it actually may be doing a disservice to us. The stories we tell ourselves to, quote, stay safe and how to break free from self-limiting patterns even when discomfort arises. So let's dive in. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED. Hello everybody. Welcome back to SPARKED and excited to be spending time again with Deborah Owens, member of our SPARKED Brain Trust. And today we're teeing up a topic that I think a lot of people are grappling with in a lot of different ways. And, Deborah, I know you've seen this sort of emerge in your practice with clients. So I'm going to turn it over to you to take us into today's topic. Yeah.

Deborah Owens: [00:02:17] So the topic is are you playing it too safe? And I think that's really relevant as we embark on a new year, how do you want to show up? Do you want 2024 to be the year where you played it safe, or do you want 2024 to be bold where you really got out of your comfort zone? I recently had a situation with one of my clients who has a wonderful global position at a well-known organization, and they are transitioning, and so they were looking for what I would call lateral positions. And I said, why are you looking for lateral positions? Why why wouldn't you go to a senior director role? Or why wouldn't you apply for a VP role? And the answer was, well, I don't know. Or it was something along the lines of, well, you know, I potentially could be new to an industry. So, you know, I'd have to get up to speed. I said, but you went to a top ten MBA school. Don't they show you in business school how to go in and assess? I said, because the marketing and those other skills are transferable, you could get up to speed. They were like, yeah, yeah, you're right. I said, well, why are you playing so small? And they didn't really have an answer. And I've seen this a lot in my clients.

Deborah Owens: [00:03:50] And I think part of the reason is because it feels safe. You're going after something that you know you can do. You're going after something that you know you can do well. And if you don't get it, it's easy to brush it off that their loss. Right. But I always try to encourage people. It's not about the title per se. It's about just general growth and learning new experiences. When you're going for a transition, you want to do it in a way. For many people where there's a little bit of a stretch, right? There's something to get excited about. There's an opportunity to either meet new people, learn something new, hopefully maybe be compensated in a much better manner. But you want to do something that'll bring a little excitement. And so, Jonathan, I thought it would be kind of fun to talk about why do we play it so safe and what are the stories? More importantly, what are the stories we tell ourselves so that we can justify playing it safe? Like, have you ever had a situation where you knew you were playing it safe, or you knew you were playing small, but you had a story in your head and that story allowed you to say, but it's okay, because do you remember what that was?

Jonathan Fields: [00:05:15] Yeah, I think we all have, you know, so I'm a little bit of a weirdo when it comes to questions like this. Also in that my wiring and I've realized this over the years is tends to be I'm very much an outlier when it comes to risk taking and actually stepping into a place of uncertainty. And there's something odd about me that just believes that I can figure it out. I love that, and I like what's what's been interesting is that over the years, I've realized that that that mindset actually is very much an outlier mindset, that that's not the norm and that the norm is to be much more conservative and to be much more risk averse and to sort of say like be, you know, and be happy for what you got. Um, and even if you're, you know, you're ready to make a change, you know, who are you to, like, expect something more? Um, there's something weird about my wiring. This has been me since I was a kid. That's been much more comfortable or just much more compelled to step into the space of the unknown and to try the things and just believe I'll be able to figure it out. And so for me, I'm a weird person to ask. And again, I've after so many conversations, I've realized that the way that I tend to look at opportunities or moments like this is really unusual and but but that most people actually, I would say the majority of people, um, take the opposite approach, you know, that the first thing is that they do is figure out, like, how do I do? How do I minimize the downside? And that's the primary focus, rather than how do I maximize the upside and then just figure out what I need to figure out to be okay. So but I'm curious, like what? Because you've had so many more. More client conversations, client side conversations around this topic than I have. What do you see coming up when you ask that question? Like, what's stopping you?

Deborah Owens: [00:07:00] So I'll start with one of my comments. I get a lot. And oftentimes with the clients that I'm working with, sometimes we may be working in a situation that's going to cause them to do something they haven't done before. So it may feel really uncomfortable, but they also understand that there's there could be a huge, um, payoff in terms of their own mental wellbeing and also being able to move forward in a way that honors who they are. So oftentimes when we discuss strategy, I'll throw out something they're like, well, you know, I don't really want to do that because I don't want to get fired. And I'm like, are you really going to get fired for doing that? Do you know somebody who's gotten fired? Have you ever heard of anybody who's gotten fired for doing that? They're like, no. And so what I'd want to say to your audience is a lot of times we kind of use that as an excuse. I don't want to get fired. Nobody's going to fire you over that. The other thing is, I think sometimes people worry what other people will think of them, to your point. Like, well, who do they think they are asking for this or applying for this or being a part of this? And I often say in just to clients is stop being mad at people. Who are willing to get uncomfortable and do what you want it to do, but you chose not to do. Right. So yeah, there are going to be some people who are going to like, who do you think you are and why did they get that or how did they get that opportunity.

Deborah Owens: [00:08:45] And so I think you have to be comfortable with that. But I think more importantly, your actions follow the stories that you tell yourself. And what I mean by that is I've shared this example before, but I'm going to share it again. It's the it's our example. Now, Jonathan, we have our own story. Um, it's when I was in New York and I volunteered to come up and do a hot seat with you, and before I went up there, I'm like, my business focuses on professionals of color. And this was not, uh, a group that had a lot of people of color in it. So the story I told myself was, well, I don't want to get up there because they're not going to even get what I'm talking about. Right? So that was one story I told myself. Then the other story was like, oh gosh, there's a couple of hundred people here. Well, I'm not going to raise my hand because everybody's going to want to get up there and do a hot seat, so I'm not going to do that. The other story I tell myself is, you know what? If they have negative things to say about my idea, what if they totally are? Like, what? What is she even talking about? Right. So I didn't have one story. I had three separate stories in my head. And if I had. Listen to any of those stories. You and I wouldn't be talking right now. Is that fair to say?

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:13] Yeah, probably. That was. That was our inciting incident together. Yeah.

Deborah Owens: [00:10:17] And so those were the stories I told myself to keep myself safe, to keep myself from hearing anything that I might perceive as negative or anything that isn't, that I might perceive to be a form of rejection. So I told myself, oh, they're not going to get it. I'm not going to even bother. Right. And but I see that show up every day in all sorts of ways. And I would even say, this is going to sound a little strange. But even when people are thinking about getting married, people want to guarantee that it's going to work. And that prevents some people from from taking that big step. And one of the things I say is there are no guarantees. There's a risk involved in that, bringing together that union. But you got to be willing to. Play big, not worry about playing safe and kind of go for it, given that all of the other things are lined up. And so I've always been fascinated with just those stories that hold us back, and particularly as a black professional or as a black woman. What's really interesting that I see with my clients is there's a lot of systemic stuff that's out there, right? Uh, systems that have been put in place that don't necessarily aren't necessarily there to support people like me. Right. But one of the things that I've realized in some cases is that forget the the systems that are out there, we censor ourselves before the systems can even impact us sometimes, because we've bought into the stories that we've heard for decades and generations.

Deborah Owens: [00:12:13] And so our default position oftentimes is playing it safe and, dare I say, playing it small. And I hope there's somebody who's listening today who'd say, wait a minute, you know, why am I not going to go for that position? Because let's be honest, you know, you can do the role. You're already doing it. You know you can do it, right. What's the story you're telling yourself that's preventing you from reaching your highest potential, or to be able to give the maximum of value, you know, what is it that's holding you back from having that conversation that you need to get some clarity around? And for me and for some of my clients, some of the the toughest conversations are when you see something and it's not right. And it's clear that it's not. But but the the execution of a policy or a guideline for particularly a certain group of people has become normalized. Right. And so. Oftentimes you just play it safe. Well, everybody's kind of had to experience that. That's kind of the way they do things around here. And I've been on this kick for the last couple of years. That that doesn't have to be the way. It has to be right and to be able to create that change. You can't play it safe because they're counting on that.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:58] Yeah. I mean, there are so many interesting things in there, you know, like two that pop out at me. One is and this is interesting because just the other day I was actually for other podcast Good Life Project., um, recording a conversation with Ellen Langer, who's often known as sort of like the the mother of mindfulness. She literally coined the term. It's been spent 40 years at Harvard doing research on the field, and we were talking about like, why we get locked into patterns. And she was talking about this thing where, um, she was sort of describing the difference between mindfulness and mindlessness and that so many of us make decisions based on patterns that we formed years ago. Um, and the circumstances have changed, you know, they don't exist anymore. But we're so locked into just the way that we think about things, the way that we see things, the pattern that we learned originally that we don't ever just look with fresh eyes. We don't ever go from mindless just doing the thing that we've always done, because that's the way that we learn to do it in the beginning, you know, because like, life was what it was, the circumstances, what they were. And then like looking with fresh eyes and being really mindful and saying, what's what is the truth of this current circumstance. And I think the example she gave in completely tripped me up with this. She's like, she's like, what happens when you're driving a car and you hit a patch of ice? And I was immediately like, I was like, well, you know, the one thing you never do is hit the brakes.

Jonathan Fields: [00:15:20] She's like, okay, so there was a time where that was 100% true, but now every car that you buy is equipped with these things called anti-lock brakes. So like you were taught as a kid, you never hit the brakes because it locks the tire and you skid out. And like, that makes it worse. Now when you hit the brakes, the car automatically pulses it the way that it should to keep it as safe as possible. So the thing that you actually should do now is hit the brakes as hard as you can, and the car will will do the same thing. And I was like, I know that. Like, I know that every car, I know that my car has anti-lock brakes. I know that this happens, and I happen to live in like a snowy place these days where there's ice on the roads and even like my first impulse was like, don't investigate. Like what has changed? I was locked into the circumstance and the paradigm, the pattern that I was taught as a kid when I was like 16 years old. I just never questioned it. And like, part of what's coming up is like when you were talking is how many of the patterns and the circumstances around us do we just kind of get locked into, like they kind of work.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:28] But then when it was time for a change, you know, rather than, you know, re-examining those patterns and those circumstances and seeing if they were still, still valid, we just kind of keep working in that paradigm and and how much that stops us from from seeing what's actually possible. The other thing that popped into my mind as you were talking, and I'm so curious what your experience has been with this and clients. Is that so? I'm a firm believer, like when we like through various companies and various entrepreneurial endeavors, you know, I've been in a position to to hire a lot of different people. And, and I learned pretty early on that with the rare exception where you really need a very high level of domain expertise. For the most part, that part of the job is trainable. And I really became a huge advocate of hiring the individual, hiring the human being, and then we'll figure out how to, like, develop the skills. But my sense is that so many people get to this point, and when they're making that decision, you're talking about one of the reasons why they they play it a bit too safe is because they're thinking the primary thing that I have to offer is, is a certain level of skill or expertise. And this other thing where I won't have like that won't transfer quite evenly. I'm going to have to, as you described earlier, I'm going to have to get up to speed.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:47] I'm going to have to invest some effort to like to to adding more skill sets and more expertise. So, you know, like, I really wouldn't be a good fit for that. They focus more on that rather than I'm an awesome human being who has like really a good value set, a really good ability to figure things out along the way. And, and I work really hard, you know, so I can transfer into this new thing and I will get up to speed and whatever skill or expertise I need, I'll get and I'll get as quickly as I feel like I need to get them to feel confident and to actually show to like this new opportunity that, yeah, I'm the right person for this. But we don't think about that. We don't we don't sort of lead with the fact that, like on the human being side, on the maturity side, on the problem solving side, like on the creativity and like, like this is we tend to focus on the skill or the expertise level as the lead thing and often use that as a way to, to tell a story that disqualifies us from something that might ask us to play it a little less safe or play a little bigger. Um, that's what, like, pops into my head. But you're you're on the ground doing this work every day. Do you do you see that in real life? Yes.

Deborah Owens: [00:18:57] So I have kind of two responses to that. So yes, we do focus on the skills that we have. And particularly with the clients I work with, we start playing it safe before we even get into the the face to face interview. So your viewers can't see me. But right now I'm wearing natural hair now, there was a time when I wouldn't have gotten on a zoom call with someone with my hair natural and not straight, and that would be playing it safe, because I would. I'm trying to minimize the reasons for them not to bring me on, and that still takes place today. So before we even step into the room, we're looking at how we're dressed and our appearance, and we are trying to play it safe because you get comments everywhere, from your fingernail polish to your lipstick to your hair to maybe the vibrant clothing you're wearing. Right. And some of that for people like you is a non-issue. Like you could care less. But unfortunately, the reality exists that there are people in leadership positions who are more focused on that than anything else. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, I very much encourage my clients to show people who they are right to not just be a walking billboard of your resume, but to talk about those things that you're passionate about, to talk about your approach.

Deborah Owens: [00:20:42] Right. So when I hire somebody I'm often interested in, I don't care if something bombed, but I want to know what was your approach? That's what I'm interested in. What what was your approach to it? So yes, I think that oftentimes we do focus on that. And I have to be honest, Jonathan, for professionals of color, that's got to come across because and not all cases, but in many cases, if you don't if you're not highlighting that because oftentimes here's a phrase is that professionals of color are not hired on their potential. They're hired on what they've done. So while somebody may look at somebody and say, oh, that Jonathan Fields guy, yeah, he's done this. He hasn't really done that, but he certainly has the potential. His his previous experiences has clearly laid the the runway or the foundation for him to really excel from that, that springboard. But there are some people who are not viewed in that way. And. And I don't want to come off as someone who's cynical. I'm coming off on my experience because I've been in those interview huddles after the fact, and I've heard some of the most ridiculous things you will ever hear. For example, they just seem too good to be true. Mhm. Just something about I don't know, there's just something about him.

Deborah Owens: [00:22:13] So I've had the experience of being in those huddles and hearing the comments or. I've interviewed two stellar candidates. One was a person of color, one was not, and the group all agreed that they were both stellar. But the person who wasn't of color, for whatever reason, nobody could pinpoint it exactly, but that person just seemed more strategic. What what was it that made you think they were more strategic? Just something there. They just seem a little more strategic. But to your point. What I will say is. At the same time. That's why you don't want to play small. You need to put it out there. And if someone is scared of that, then that's not the place for you. Right. You know, so I always tell people, yes, of course, you want to talk about your skills and your competencies and your areas of expertise, but people want to know who they're going to be working with day in and day out. Let them know about who you are, because we tend to be very guarded, right? Because obviously past experiences, a lot of not a lot of trust there. Right. And so sometimes a big part of what I have to help people do is to let your guard down a little bit, let people get to know who you are between all of that brilliance, like what drives that brilliance, what's the passion? What's the what's your origin story? Right.

Deborah Owens: [00:23:51] It's okay to be a little vulnerable because these are things or to your point, patterns that have existed for centuries, literally. And so now it is a different time. But in some cases, the circumstances, the current circumstances haven't caught up. But on the same hand, I would say if you look at the political climate today, it feels like we're going a little backwards sometimes because whatever you see in that, the political climate and I'm sure you've seen people say crazy things on TV, right? Or in the newspaper, people forget those people have jobs. Some of those people hire are hiring managers. They're leaders in their organizations. People don't cut that off when they go to work in the morning. And I can say back in the day when I was in corporate. And I was always the person who was having all of the conversations that they said, you're not supposed to have in corporate, but I think that's how you get to know people. Right. They weren't violent conversations. They were just interesting conversations. But consistently, there seemed to be this belief that all of the stuff that's operating outside of our company stops at the door, and it doesn't come in. But that doesn't happen here. Nobody here thinks that.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:18] Yeah. I mean, we live in the world that we live.

Deborah Owens: [00:25:20] In, live in the world that we live in.

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:22] And I guess part of the like, part of the moment that we're talking about also is probably just. Taking a real open eyed assessment of like, what is the reality of my circumstance right now and the environment that I'm in and the environment that I'm considering potentially moving into? And what's the most intelligent way to navigate this? And how do I, even if I have concerns and even if they are legitimate concerns based on systemic patterns, um, how do I still how do I how do I acknowledge all of that and still ask myself, how do I step into this moment and allow myself to play a bit less safe and a bit bigger, because I need that for my soul, for my career, for my interest, for my passion to feel SPARKED like I need that. Um, and if I don't get it, like then then languishing starts to set in. So, so as we sort of come full circle on this conversation, is there a final thought or invitation that you'd like to offer?

Deborah Owens: [00:26:25] Yeah. So for many of my clients and I would just say this, some people will agree with me, some don't. But if you're a person of color, particularly black professional, I don't know if you ever feel 100% comfortable. Right. There's always some discomfort. And so my line is people are like, oh, I'm not comfortable doing that. I'm like, are you comfortable at all? No. I said, well, if you're going to be uncomfortable, then just be uncomfortable in service to yourself, right? Because you said something that really resonated to me. It's important to your soul. It's important to your well-being. So don't play small. If people don't get it, they don't get it. And I know this sounds cliche, but oftentimes people have done us a favor. Right? But I wrote down, um, some thoughts I had. And it's about things you can do in the new year, right? It's 2024. And typically what I would say to people is, you know, be clear on how you're going to be evaluated. You know, what what value do they want? Are they expecting you to bring all of that kind of stuff? But as I was thinking about that this morning, one of the things is I think there are other questions we should ask ourselves. How are you going to evaluate this year? What's how are you going to evaluate it? What's it going to be based on? Is it going to be based on money? Is it going to be based on joy? Is it going to be based on how much of your passion you can can bring with you? But to think about how are you going to evaluate your year at work? What are the elements that need to be present for you to honor who you are and to work at your maximum potential? What kind of passions do you have and how can you bring them? To your job or to this this place where you spend at least 40 hours a week.

Deborah Owens: [00:28:24] And and I believe whatever your passion is, you can bring to your job. There's always a place. Um, you know what my passions are. But I had a coworker and his daughter had this, um, I think rare illness. And he wanted to. He started doing triathlons around it, and he got everybody. I don't know, there must have been about 60 of us in our company that, me included, that participated in the sprint triathlon because we got caught up in his passion and the challenge of it all. So people would think, oh, you can't bring that to work. Sure you can. There's always a way. So how can you infuse some of that into your daily life so that you are full? Because when you are full and your soul is thriving? I think that's when we are. We do our best work like we are at our peak.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:20] Yeah. So I agree with that. Um, and that is a central reason why we've spent years now, sort of like in the whole Sparketype body of work. It's like, how do I identify what that thing is in us and, and find ways to bring more of it to the work that we're doing. So, you know, I wholeheartedly agree with that. Thanks, as always, for your insight and to our fabulous listening community. Thanks so much, everyone for tuning in. We'll see you here again next week. Take care.