How to Trust your Essential Nature throughout your Life

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Guest: [00:00:04] And now, in creating this new business I have, I've become more of a maker. Do we find ourselves wanting to take the Sparketype assessment more and more?

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:16] In today's episode, listener Quentin asks a really interesting question can your interests and also your sparketype change over time? Or is it a matter of understanding what your primary impulses are and how they're best expressed in different seasons of life and shifting around them? And Quentin puts forward a query we often get at Sparketype HQ. Can you do your Sparketype assessment more than once and will it change over the course of your life? But there are some bigger, deeper questions embedded once we dive into what's really going on here. And on deck with me this week from the SPARKED Brain Trust to help tease out what really matters and share insights and ideas. Is multi-time founder and CEO of Jadah Sellner Media, the co-creator of the Simple Green Smoothies social and business phenom, sought after advisor to entrepreneurs and best selling author Joshua Sellner. So quick note you'll hear us mention something we call Sparketypes in conversation. What is that? Turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype. And when you discover yours, everything your work life, even parts of your personal life and relationships, they begin to make more sense. And until you know it, you're kind of fumbling in the dark. And just like today's listener did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. Now on to Quentin's story and question. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is spark.

Guest: [00:01:47] Hello, my name is Quentin Ciappa. A preferred pronouns are he and his. My general life circumstance basically revolves around that. I've always wanted to follow my heart, do something more. For years and years I've been in a health care worker, uh, primarily frontline worker right now, and I veered into something more health coaching, a nutrition wellness consulting, started my own business getting things rolling. I just see a change. The book SPARKED really changed my life. It validated a lot of the decisions I've made. And my right now, my primary is nurture. My shadow is an advisor, but my auntie is a performer. And that kind of veers into my question I have for you today. There was a time in my life where I was in broadcasting, and I did a lot of performing. That would have been my primary. Now it's my auntie. Do you see things that change like this over time? And now in creating this new business I have, I've become more of a maker. Do we find ourselves wanting to take the Sparketype assessment more and more? So that's kind of my question. Thank you for all that you do. It's changed my life and I look forward to the podcast by by.

Jonathan Fields: [00:02:58] So some really interesting things to dive into here. I actually want to explore his nurturer, advisor and anti performer in the context of what he's actually doing now, sort of like shifting from more frontline work into coaching, nutrition and wellness consulting because we may have some things to say about that. But one of the questions that he sort of brings up is what he's asking underneath it all is, can your impulses can your your things change, your Sparketypes change over time. And I've been asked this many, many times, but before I even get to that, I want to address sort of a couple of things that he said. I'm curious how this lands with you, because Quentin said there was a time in my life where, you know, he was a frontline worker for a long time. He was. He's now in health care, things that seem like they would be really well aligned with the nurture and advisor part of him. But in a past life, it sounds like he was a broadcaster and he did a lot of performing. So that and then and his word language was that would have been my primary. And this is where it gets really interesting, because we can sometimes confuse what we're good at, what we're skilled at, what we get paid to do, even for entire seasons of life with the underlying impulse that drives us. And because of that, if we're good at something and we're getting paid to do it, we can sometimes say, well, that must be the thing. Rather than, maybe I'm wearing this particular hat because it happens to serve a particular function in my life or in the world and work at this moment in time. I'm curious where, like what your thoughts are on showing up or stepping into roles or jobs, or getting paid to do things that maybe become such a part of your life that you start to say, well, well, maybe that's actually who I am. And sometimes what happens when that falls apart?

Jadah Sellner: [00:04:37] Yeah. Well, the key word that pops up for me in this conversation is adaptability. And that would be very nurturer. Right. Um, to really show up the slogan for nurturer is I got you. And so I think for Quentin that in any role, paid or unpaid, he's going to show up and do whatever needs to be done. I mean, that's why his, you know, most recent years were around being a frontline healthcare worker, right? It's like what needs to get done? I'm here. Let's make it happen. What do you need? So I think that he's brought that into his different roles. And then I also think that there's a sense of lifelong learner, which is why he's so curious. You know, he's kind of self-identifying as primary performer when he was in the broadcasting, and now he's kind of like, well, but now I'm in this like, maker and wanting to, you know, really manifest ideas. And so I just think that he is a sponge to, to show up for whatever is needed. And so he's bringing that nurturer energy into his business and even taking care of his business in that way of, okay, I've got to make things that don't exist, come into life. And so I think that's a really great gift that he has, that adaptability and also the curiosity to be a lifelong learner and try all these different ways of using his primary as nurturer.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:09] Yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, it's also what we share when somebody takes the assessment is sort of like the strongest two impulses. And then the one on the other side of the spectrum, you know, like the one that is most emptying, that doesn't automatically mean that you don't have any of these other impulses in you. It just is. We're sharing sort of like the two ones that really are showing up the most strongly. Something else was jumping out at me, which is, um, the long time broadcaster Maria menounos, who's been on all sorts of different shows and stuff like that, now has her own show. I was talking with her and, you know, she spent her entire life in the world of broadcast in front of a camera. My recollection is she came up as her primary was in nurture. She's like, how does that how does that even work? And I was like I said, okay, so is it possible that the thing that you've been doing and appearing in front of a camera for for decades, that the deeper drive is not to perform or create a moment or a certain energy, but to literally show up on a regular basis every single day in people's lives, as an anchor in their lives, as a calm, joyful, real, honest, open, vulnerable anchor in their lives to help them feel like no matter what's going on in the world, it's going to be okay. And that a big part of why you're doing what you're doing is not because you love the energy of being in front of a camera, but because you know that in playing that role, you can help people breathe a little bit more easily.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:28] And it was like a light bulb moment. She's like, oh my God, yes, yes. Like that is. And then she starts talking about how she spent her whole life being like taking care of others. And that is her fundamental drive, whether it's family or friends and things like that. So again, you know, because you have a particular role, which in theory, like on paper, well, like you, you must be a performer if you're in broadcast. But in fact, any different impulse could be the dominant impulse or the leading impulse in almost any other job or. Our industry. So the first thing I sort of wanted to tease out with you is, is we always want to question our assumptions, you know, about how we're showing up or not showing up, or if there's a particular job or title or industry, you know, don't necessarily assume that this is the job for an ex Sparketype, right? It's more about how it shows up, how it informs how you do the job. You know, it's like I've seen you. I've seen you on stage. You know, you're phenomenal. Like you know how to create an incredible moment. I've also seen you be just like pure heart. I've seen you be like the incredible teacher and just like, lead with this voracious desire to illuminate and to advise. So have you experienced this? Almost like shape shifting, but stepping into sort of like what people would perceive as like, this is the type of person who does this, but you're really just finding ways to channel your own personal impulses into it.

Jadah Sellner: [00:08:50] Yeah, I because I, I really relate with Quentin in that adaptability to show up for whatever is is needed. And even right now, when I'm kind of in this path of authorship and, and really taking on the maker role and, and in my, you know, creative cocoon, creative cave, just writing away. I'm not speaking on a stage. I'm I'm not, you know, I'm but I'm finding I have the advisor in me. So it's I'm able to advise through the book through storytelling and performer has has not been in any of my sparketypes yet. I have those those capabilities to perform on a stage in front of 3000 people or to do a spoken word poem. I think what's important is we can actually borrow from all the Sparketypes right to, to read through the entire book and, and see elements that we're able to use and express some of those pieces. And I think when we we take these tests that we feel like that none of the other things that are available or exist to us, but we can actually borrow some of those pieces to get more inspired and almost double down on our sparketype in that way, too.

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:00] Yeah. I mean, I think we can sort of situationally where where a particular hat for a moment also, even if it's not our thing. Um, this ties in also in something that you and I have talked about endlessly also, which is sort of like social orientation, like introversion, introversion, extroversion, because I am very much an introvert, you know, on an identity level, I identify as as an introvert. And yet I can if called on, like if there if there is a reason for me to actually like, you know, put on that extrovert hat to work a room, I'm fully capable of doing it. I've learned over the years to develop this skill of being a situational extrovert, but it's so depleting often that like, you know, by the time I'm done with an hour or two, I just need to be alone for a day or two to.

Jadah Sellner: [00:10:46] Yeah, I think that's important for Quentin and for all of us to pay attention to the impulses that we follow, the activities that we participate in our work, what drains our energy, even if it's fun in the moment, like, whew, that was great. But how do you feel after versus the things that you do where it might feel like hard work, but it almost feels like not work because it's just this, this natural, um, expression and comes with a little bit more ease and fun in the extra effort that comes with it. So it's like, what is energizing you? What is draining you and paying attention to the type of activities that do that for you. I know for me, I'm constantly did that drain my energy? You know, after leading an event, you know, I debrief with my team and just like, okay, here's what was very depleting about that. And then putting in bumper guardrails for the next time that I do something to not make it feel as draining the next time. And then what are the things that feel really energizing and make me feel like I'm coming alive? Then I want to double down and do more of that, and less of the things that drain me, or putting in tools or support or people in place to kind of help me replenish from the more draining activities.

Jonathan Fields: [00:12:03] Yeah, you just brought up an interesting distinction too, which is sort of like the way you feel during the thing and the way you feel after. And as you were sharing that, I literally realized I said, you know, when I'm on stage, I don't feel depleted. I feel because I think I am so just hyper present in the moment. I don't feel anything really. I'm just it's just full on. I'm there. I am just doing the thing that I was like I said yes to doing it. I'm actively trying to devote all of my energy to being fully present and engaged in the moment. So it's almost like this space. Well, it's like a flow state almost, which is which is really often described as a space beyond feeling, beyond emotion. It's just hyper presence, hyper awareness. But so the distinction that you're teasing out, which is like pay attention not just to how you feel in the moment, but in the aftermath of it. Like, did this give you energy or take you take energy away from you because that may be a stronger tell.

Jadah Sellner: [00:12:58] Yeah. So I can share a specific example for me because I consider myself a social introvert. So I can only people for so long. But I would I would do client calls and I would, you know, have them kind of back to back, you know, I'm like, oh, I can do three client calls in a day. And then I got to this place where it was like, I am so drained that the next day I can't do any work. I'm just exhausted, depleted. And so I had to create these guardrails in, in my, my schedule of I talk on Tuesdays and Thursdays only two calls with an hour break in between. And that was the sustainable way for me to kind of connect and and show up in that way without depleting my energy. But so we're also this dance and being scientist and observing our, our own behavior and how how we respond to activities and then being able to again, put those guardrails and bumper rails in place. And it is an experiment and a dance, because there was one point where it was like just 30 minute break, just, you know, 15 minute break in between, I'm like, no, I need an hour to decompress from that last call, and then I can get ready for the next one. But I'm not one of those people that can batch a bunch of conversations and do like eight calls in one day and be like, all right, I'm done for the whole month. I need a lot of space in between peoplelink to be able to kind of replenish myself. So even if we do have to do some things that may be drain our energy, how can we create a little bit more spaciousness around it for a way that replenishes us in the process?

Jonathan Fields: [00:14:35] Yeah, I love that. So we've talked about Quentin's sort of, uh, initial question. And also one of the things that he sort of offered in as part of, like the story that he was sharing with us before he got to his sort of bigger question, which is, you know, I was a performer because I was doing this particular job, and I think we've kind of teased out the notion that actually, in fact, you could have been doing that particular job in his case broadcast, you know, like in front of a camera or microphone and been a nurturer. Um, just because the industry says you are a performer doesn't mean that's actually the impulse you're bringing to it, which which really kind of, I think brings us to the deeper question that he was asking later. Um, you know, he said, do you do you see things like that, meaning your sparketype change over time? Um, now, in creating this new business, he said, I've become more of a maker again, sort of like putting on. He's doing the job of being a maker, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the impulse for effort that's the most nourishing to him. But it's part of what you do when you're starting something new. It's just what you say yes to. It's one of the boxes that you have to check until you can, like, get to a place where you're resourced enough to compensate someone else or bring someone else in to do those parts of it.

Jonathan Fields: [00:15:47] But, you know, his deeper question is, when we get past sort of like just the the assumption assumptions that we're inviting to question the deeper question is do the do these impulses change over time? And this is a question I've been asked many, many times. And there are sort of two answers to it. And my answer evolves the more we go into the research. You know, we're at this point, about 700,000 people have completed the assessment as we're having this conversation. So we're sitting in about 35 million data points. And, you know, like miles of case studies and use cases and incredible feedback. And to answer that question from a purely data standpoint is actually impossible, because what it would require us to do, and this is true of all the major type indexes, by the way, is literally have someone take the assessment at a little bit after birth. Mhm. Assume that in the process they both had like power over language and were fully aware and then have them take it on regular intervals throughout their entire life to see if it shifts. So from just a practical standpoint, it is absolutely impossible to do to answer that question from an analytical from a data standpoint. But what I can say is a lot of the questions that we develop, the prompts in the assessment are what we call they're more of like a longitudinal thing. We're asking you like, what things have you felt or noticed or been aware of or experienced for as long as you can remember? Because we're trying to to get at through lines that have been there for really long times.

Jonathan Fields: [00:17:09] And what we've seen is sort of like the softer data and the bigger data set over time is that it really does seem like these things become pretty stable pretty early in life in most people. And we often either sometimes we embrace them and we build around them, and it just becomes the anchor for so much of what we say yes to. Oftentimes we don't, um, we ignore them, or we may even be told by family or community that it's an inappropriate thing to pursue. Um, performers get this a lot, by the way. And so we kind of tuck it away, we stifle it, or we're like, oh, that's something that maybe I'll just do on the side and not really center in any meaningful way. But when you really think about it, most people are able to track back. If you say like, you think back to the time that you were really like a little kid and the things that were just absolutely most nourishing to you, that made you most come alive, that were just intuitive, intrinsic, and even if it was really hard, it just gave you this feeling that you wanted to have. Again, they will track it back to their primary and or shadow. And, you know, unlike a lot of other assessments where it's skill based or talent based, it's not something that you can skill your way out of.

Jonathan Fields: [00:18:19] You can skill your way into being competent. So it feels a lot better, especially if it's just part of the work that you have to do because it's what you've signed up for. But that doesn't mean it'll ever necessarily become like move into first place. It's just that you become more competent at it, so it's easier, and it gets you closer to the thing that lets you actually create the container to express more fully your actual impulses. So it can get a little bit confusing, but it's increasingly like my strong belief that these things are pretty stable. You know, as we move into like, teens and adults. Um, barring the type of experience that would be so profoundly traumatic that it would literally change your brain. This is profound and traumatic loss. This is traumatic brain injury, things like this. Because fundamentally we are, you know, like we are who our brains tell us to be. And when our brains go through something that is so profound that it literally rewires them, there are things within us that can get rewired. I'm curious, though, because you're so intuitive and you've talked to a lot of people about not just about the sparketypes, but about sort of like these identity level things that exist in them. I'm curious what your lens on this is. Also.

Jadah Sellner: [00:19:30] Yeah, I think that when I hear this, when you mention kind of the, the trauma or something like that, that. It happen that even as people are taking the sparketype to pay attention to, is there a stress response that's activated because they're in a a work environment that is unfulfilling or is psychologically not safe? You know, so there's there's something in that that I feel can kind of can, can tamper your true expression, true impulse. And so there's a part of that that I think can kind of put that off a bit, especially if there's a bit of people pleaser or like I just I show up and I do the work and this is what it's expected of me and those things. So I think that as you start to find your opportunity to and I think with Quentin, he's in this, this safer place out of in a response in reactionary mode, like he's, you know, he's obviously building something a business right now. But there's feels like there's a little bit more space and distance, even from being the frontline health worker and kind of being in more of taking on some of that advising and nurturing in the, the health coaching. So just paying attention to kind of like where our nervous systems are at when we're taking these tests, where our stress responses are, I think is is really important to kind of pay attention to. And I think it would be you having your being scientist and you as well of like it would be interesting to follow someone's sparketype from early childhood on to retirement.

Jonathan Fields: [00:21:06] And oh yeah, if we could do it, it would be amazing. But but it's also limited by two things. And this again, this this isn't just about the sparketypes, it's about every major index that's out there now. Like when somebody sits down to take an assessment, it's always constrained by the depth and quality of the experience they bring to it and their level of self-awareness at that moment. And those two things can change, you know? So sometimes people will take it a year or two apart and they'll be like, why did something shift a bit in what I got? Does that mean my sparketype has changed? And again, my strong sense is that I would actually investigate. Has anything happened in the intervening time that may have changed, like the quality and the depth of the experience that I'm bringing to this and my level of self-awareness? And for sure, the last couple of years for people we've been exposed to a lot and a lot of us have gone inside and been like, oh, this is who I am, and this is what matters. This is what's happening inside me.

Jadah Sellner: [00:22:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because my lead Sparketype has been advisor, but has moved to the kind of like the Shadow and maker has moved into primary. And being in that kind of creation mode of and things feeling so effortless in, in creation and making and it's like, oh, this makes sense for business, why I would build a business or why I would write a book or why I would, you know, perform a poem or, or different things like that. So it's, it's an interesting because I've, I've been in transition too, of, of advising and coaching and consulting and just it's a very interesting dance to see where we are in our seasonality of, of our lives and output and, and what's and what's being called of us versus what we feel called towards.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:54] Yeah. And I think I love that. I feel like we are in a moment right now where so many people are asking the big existential question and looking for answers not to try and satisfy expectations, which has been so much of so much of our lives. But actually to really figure out, like, who am I and what matters to me at this moment. And I think the big thing that I would think is like when you're whether it's a Sparketype assessment or anything else that you're doing from a process of self-discovery and self-awareness, step into it. Like with the expectation that nobody else is ever going to know, like, this is 100% for you, because that's how. And maybe at some point after that, you just you decide it's valuable to share it. But make that a second part of your, your process, you know, like when you're just going in to learn more about you, just say, this is 100% for me. I may never tell another soul because that'll help you, I think. Be more honest with yourself. And I mean, it's that way for everything, right? Same thing if you're going to therapy.

Jadah Sellner: [00:23:51] Yeah, yeah. I'm curious for you. You know, because we talk about self-awareness a lot. How do you tend to that in, in your own relationship to, to work to kind of track that? I think it could be really helpful for people to start to see the model of what does self-awareness and how how do you track that? How do you stay in tune and be in relationship with that?

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:17] So I don't know if I'm a model for anyone. So let's let's kind of posit that first. But for me, you know, probably the single most powerful tool in my self-awareness toolbox has been mindfulness meditation. And it's been a daily practice of mine for about a dozen years now. It's sort of the thing I do first thing in the morning and. It's just it it, you know, meditation is interesting because a lot of people make a lot of claims about what it does to or for you, like it solves this problem, it increases performance. It makes you calmer. It resolves all of your issues. Like all of a sudden your childhood doesn't matter anymore. And what I found is that what mindfulness in particular does is it allows you to come into the present moment much more easily rather than get trapped spinning in the past or fretting about the future, and allows you to see more clearly the truth of a circumstance. Again, whether it's an immediate circumstance or something that happened in the past or something that you're thinking about in the future, it gives you clarity. But it doesn't necessarily resolve any of it. It just lets you be present to it, and it lets you see it more clearly. And then you have to do the hard work of figuring out what to do about it. You may be totally cool with what you see, or you may be like, oh, like there's work that needs to be done. Um, but for me, it's been incredible tool for generating clarity at moments, especially when I'm being called on to work really hard and make big decisions. Um, what about you?

Jadah Sellner: [00:25:45] Yeah, well, I just wanted to first reflect on what you shared of of having the space and the quiet to not only see what's happening, but also to hear your own voice, to be in that that contemplation and conversation with yourself. Because many times we can seek outside of ourselves for the answers. What do you think? What's your preference like? That's very natural for us to do that, but to turn in and tune in and turn up the volume of our own voices. And I think in our world it can our days can get very busy where we don't have the space to listen and to check in and tune in and have that, that self-awareness. Um, so I think that that piece is really important for me. I'm a verbal processor. I have a meditation practice as well. I do a lot of breathwork in the morning. I actually change it up, um, like sometimes it's breathwork, sometimes it's a guided meditation, but really just making sure that my body and breath are connected and I'm tuned in to myself. But because I'm a verbal processor, it really helps for me to have other people to, to bounce, uh, my thoughts and ideas and questions and inquiries, um, off with other people. So I have a life coach. I have what they call, you know, a mastermind group of peers and friends that I can ask questions to. But what I'm really looking to is to hear my voice out loud and then to feel that within my own self. Like how feeling the tonality of my voice. And is this true? Is this real? Is this aligned? Is something off? Is there, quivering in my voice? So, um, that's a really great way for me to tune in. I'm even with my team. I debrief with them. Just verbally processing out loud gives me a chance to to hear my voice. But I'm not always trying to take in the opinions or advice of others. I'm a rebel, so someone could tell me what to do. And it doesn't mean anything, right?

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:51] It's like safe bet you're going to do the exact opposite.

Jadah Sellner: [00:27:54] Yeah.

Jadah Sellner: [00:27:55] But it's a helpful like tennis match to kind of see what's really true and be in that excavation phase for myself.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:03] I mean, and you sort of like highlight a really interesting tension between benefiting, seeking out and benefiting from the insight, um, from others and falling into the trap of identity by consensus, you know, so it's sort of like you always have to ask that, that question that you also offered up. Is it true? And let the answer be more intuitive than, you know, like looking for everyone else to then answer that question as well. Love this. And thank you so much for the conversation as always and the insights. Quentin, I hope this was helpful to you and anyone else who's sort of exploring what they feel are maybe like, is this thing shifting in them over time, or am I actually just stepping into something where in theory it should be this type of impulse? But I've just sort of like I've shape shifted a bit, but it's actually I'm secretly sneaking in the part of me that I want to. Um, and as always, thank you all for listening in and we will see you next time. Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life, and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:11] And if you'd love to share your own moment and question with us, we would love to hear from you. Just go ahead and click on the submissions link in the show notes to get the details on how to do that. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at Sparketype.com. It'll open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive in work in life together. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.