How to Use your Inner Whispers to Find Your Way

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:09] And today, we're incredibly excited to be sharing a new feature here on the SPARKED podcast, Career Transformation Stories. So we're inviting guests to share inspiring stories of their career change from reimagining the work that they're currently doing. So it just feels so much more alive to leaving behind unfulfilling jobs. Careers work to find or create new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, meaningful, and joy filled paths. And we're exploring how they're Sparketype has played a role in this journey. It's all about how we transform work into one of the best parts of our lives. So get ready to discover a side of yourself maybe you never knew existed, one that will completely transform how you view, work, life, and even your relationships. So today, I'd love you to meet Barbara Ellen Light, a former classroom educator who listened to those inner whispers telling her it was time for a pivot, and despite initial self-doubt from straying from her expected path, Barbara persevered, cultivating a deep understanding of what made her come alive. And today, she wears multiple hats as a career coach, inspiring others to really confidently navigate their professional journeys and as a higher education professional, supporting students at Suny Empire State University. But Barbara's transition, it was no simple task. She'll share the challenges she faced, leaving her passion for teaching behind due to personal circumstances requiring comprehensive health benefits, something that a lot of folks have had to grapple with.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:39] And her evolution is a powerful reminder that our callings can change, and growth arises when we embrace those pivotal moments. At the heart of Barbara's story lies a fundamental truth we all possess an imprint for work that makes us come alive. We call this your Sparketype and Barbara's own Sparketypes as an advisor who advocates reveal her innate drive to guide others towards growth and fulfillment. You'll discover why creating an empowering career narrative is crucial for actualizing your own strengths, and Barbara's journey exemplifies how listening to your inner voice can reveal new possibilities beyond your wildest dreams. When you become your own champion. A quick note you'll hear us mention something we call the Sparketypes in conversation. So what is that? Well, it turns out we all have a unique imprint for work that makes us come alive. This is your Sparketype when you discover yours, everything, your entire work and life, even parts of your personal life and relationships, they just start to make more sense. And until we know ours, we're kind of fumbling a bit in the dark. And just like Barbara did, you can discover your Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. You'll find a link in the show notes. So excited to share this conversation with you! I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.

Jonathan Fields: [00:02:58] Hey, and before we dive into today's episode, a quick share. So if you're a coach, a consultant or a leader, and you would just love to stand out more in 2024 and beyond, with a powerful new credential and a set of results driven superpowers, we have got something for you. With nearly a million people now discovering their profiles, the Sparketypes have become a global phenomenon. People want their work to light them up, and oftentimes they would love some help along the way, which is why we developed our certified Sparketype advisor training. As a certified advisor, you will discover cutting edge tools that spark profound work life client transformations. Stand out with a highly unique credential and skill set in a crowded market. Find ease and flexibility with templated engagement flows. You'll become a part of a global network of change makers, and you'll rack up 40 ICF continuing education credits. Our fall cohort is enrolling now with visionaries just like you, and we would love to invite you to uplevel your capabilities as a coach or consultant or leader by becoming a certified Sparketype advisor. To learn more about the fall training and see if it's right for you, just click the link in the show notes now or visit sparketype.com. Slash pros.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:04:18] My name is Barbara Ellen Light and my Sparketype primary is advisor. My secondary is advocate and surprising to many people who know me. My aunt Tie is performer.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:30] Awesome and we'll dive into all that. So I want to take a little bit of a step back in time. And I'm always curious, when you were growing up, was there a story in your mind about work, about what it was or wasn't, what the shoulds or shouldn't or expectations were when you were younger?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:04:48] Oh my gosh, that is such a good question. I can tell you, you know, I, I was younger when my mom went back to college to get her bachelor's degree and that socioeconomically changed our lives by the time she was able to. Graduate and walk the stage. So my understanding and my dad worked full time and became kind of primary caretaker when she was part time and in school full time. So my understanding of work truly was that career development matters, that you can career pivot. My parents definitely always instilled within us the idea that you need to work hard to earn respect. And oddly enough, as we became older and maybe their careers changed or, you know, I'm in Rochester, New York. So the layoffs of Kodak, that happened primarily in the mid 90s, I started to learn more about maybe the intricacies and politics behind work, where work hard pays oftentimes when you're in more of a place of privilege. And it's also really important to have your allies. But I had a really strong example of work life balance, Teamwork. And then the idea that you can develop and you can pivot and you can find your people, which is very inspiring for me.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:05] Mhm.Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you learned so much just through observing. I'm curious, was this you sort of like watching what was happening or did you did did your parents actually sort of have conversations with you about this at all.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:06:16] So the teamwork part was truly through my observational skills, although my parents would also name it, you know, teamwork. High five. And so that was a really beautiful practice that I've now taken into my own life. And my husband and I do, um, in terms of the kind of, um, the observation of the observing it, but the experiencing it was really, um, uh, happened kind of like through osmosis, where also my parents are very transparent people. They're very open and honest. There's a lot of trust there. And so, you know, family dinners, we would have very open and honest conversations, you know, how was your day at school? But also here's how my day was at work. And so we were really looped in. So there's like the observational osmosis, but then almost that like experiential learning component from hearing their stories, which was very interesting.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:10] Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:07:10] I mean that's so you're kind of getting it through what you were just seeing. But also that sounds like they were really open. Probably it sounds like they were maybe even more open than a lot of parents are with kids about what's going on at work. I feel like a lot of times that's kind of like this protected domain, like you really don't have those conversations. Um, you know, and a lot of kids aren't interested in it also. Um, did you have a sense at all for sort of whether there were any expectations for how you might eventually step into the world of work?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:07:39] Right. Well, oddly enough, no. And I'll tell you why. Because my parents, I was the one who pushed myself. It was such a very open, welcoming environment of you. Do what you want. You do what you love. Please have a plan. Will support you. But I was literally just reflecting upon this the other day, and I firmly believe the amount of successful career pivots and meaningful career pivots I've been able to nourish is because, almost like a hands off expectation, their whole mantra school and work. We just want you to do your best. We just want you to do your hardest. But then they really modeled, you know, that dedication and that work ethic and the, you know, the grit that a career often requires. Um, but yeah, they were really supportive of whatever decision we made as long as we were healthy and giving it our best.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:36] Yeah. I mean, what a beautiful gift to to also have to kind of know that you can really follow your muse, that you can as long as you're putting in the effort and really giving your all to it, that it was all good. Because I feel like so often as kids, you kind of get trapped into like, this is the appropriate thing for you to do here. Or like, here are the five things that are acceptable for you to do and everything else isn't. But it sounds like you really just had a much freer experience.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:09:01] I truly did. And, you know, it's so interesting. My older brother actually graduated with a degree in theater arts. He has his BFA in theater arts, and so he's now a very well respected in our community, lighting and sound engineer. So very non-traditional path. And I knew when it was time for me to transition out of education, not out of education, but out of classroom teaching. You know, now I have my master's degree, and I've spent all this time and money and I have all these student loans. And, you know, the idea is you at least teach for at least ten years, then you get student loan forgiveness. And there was this whole coordinated plan. And when I realized I had to pivot, I needed full time benefits. I would love to have long term sub, but I couldn't and I needed to pivot. I truly was able to harness the essence of that pivot and identify what I needed, because I knew that they were going to support me no matter what. And I'm not saying my parents are perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but for whatever reason, it was instilled within them. Like, we trust our kids, we believe in our kids, we're going to support them. And you know, my younger brother, he's an adjunct professor and had a really, really unconventional his degrees in his master's degrees in rhetoric. Right. And I think and you would know because you're a former lawyer, I think mostly when you get a master's in rhetoric, you tend to go to law school. That was never on the table for him. So kudos to my parents for walking the walk and talking the talk in terms of that level of support.

Jonathan Fields: [00:10:25] Yeah, I mean, how beautiful. Just to sort of have that kind of like parental wind under your sails to go and explore and really figure things out. So as you just shared, you end up at some point in education. Tell me how that that happened.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:10:37] Yeah, absolutely. So going back to childhood, in your original question, if there was one path I knew I was probably going to take be a teacher. I played school growing up. Even in the summertime. My friends and I, growing up in the city of Rochester, always played school. And then I went to University of Pittsburgh undergrad and I had an academic advisor. Now Pitt is a huge undergrad population. Like, I think when I was there it was 17,000 undergrad. So my advisor, I think his job was a little bit easy where he's like, oh, you like English? Be an English Lit major. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he's like, oh, and you could be a teacher. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I didn't really question it because on the one hand it was a good fit for me. But on the other hand, I do wish I had more career exploration. I wish I knew about working in higher ed. So anyhow, I was a kid in the classroom, whether I was at Pitt, whether I was at Teachers College, or whether I was at Nazareth University, where I ended up getting my grad degree, I was a kid where your peers would point to you and say, oh, you'll be a 35 year, 50 year career teacher. I mean, we all knew and like the 20 tens, you know, I was in grad school 2007, 2008 to 2010. We all knew that teachers weren't really having that longevity anymore. I mean, some many still are, but that it was a little bit of a rougher road for many reasons. But I was still the kid people would point to and be like, oh, but you'll be a teacher for forever.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:11:57] And I realized I had to pivot when I finally graduated with my master's in 2010 and Rochester, New York, where I wanted to be teaching. Part of the reason I switched grad schools is because the teaching market was saturated. Now I have invisible disabilities. I need full time health benefits. It was getting to that point in time where I was no longer going to be able to be on my parents benefits, and I kid you not, I remember I lived on Vic Parkway at the time, so if anyone's familiar with Rochester, New York, that Park Ave neighborhood, my roommate, teacher, she she pivoted from marketing to teaching. She had an incredible marketing job and loved teaching so much, she pivoted. She's still a Spanish teacher. Her parents were both highly respected teachers. I'm surrounded by teachers. My whole life has been building up to being a teacher, and we were standing in between our dining room and our living room. And I kid you not, whether you want to call it crown chakra or what a spark of inspiration hit me because I was having a legit identity crisis where I thought oh my God, I cannot, I, I can't be a classroom teacher. It's not gonna work. I can't do it. And finally, the spark of light hit me. Crown chakra. And it was like, well, you don't have to be a teacher, but you can be an educator. No matter what you do, you can always be an educator. And so to this day, for the past, what, 14 years now? I always say I'm a former teacher or I guess 13 years because 2011 is when I switched former teacher, forever educator. And that's true.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:23] I mean, and you brought up invisible disabilities. And I think this is something that nobody really talks about, you know, and clearly it's, you know, invisible right to the outside in. This is something that so many people live with some form of physical or mental disability or struggle or challenge that that is not observable to people on the outside. Right. And yet it's very real for you sometimes on a daily basis, sometimes extremely and sometimes mildly, and sometimes it varies. But this is something that I think so many people, it's a part of their lives but it's not a part of the conversation that they have with anybody and nobody asks about it, or nobody like realizes that any level of support is needed because they can't see it. Are you open to talking a little bit more about how that sort of like has affected the decisions that you made and the way that you live?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:14:09] Absolutely. And thank you for how you phrased that and our approach. I really appreciate it. And absolutely.

Jonathan Fields: [00:14:15] Yeah. So so tell me a little bit more about how how this really what I'm curious about especially is how it has affected your decision making.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:14:24] Right. Okay. So invisible disabilities are yes, very very interesting. And it's so funny because I'm, I well I do have my own career coaching practice. I'm on I'm also now back in higher ed. And so I've literally just been taking these HR trainings and having these conversations with these departments. So it's all very, very relevant. Um, you know, one of the barriers to discussing invisible disabilities is either, you know, lack of your own awareness of of the fact that you might have it, but once you maybe have that awareness and you settle in and you learn maybe to be your own self-advocate, there's still stigma. Stigma is so pervasive. And, you know, we talk about unconscious bias and certainly stigmatize into that. And what I mean to say is that stigma can be so unconscious. I call it insidious, you know, that as soon as maybe an invisible disability is disclosed, whether it's a learning disability, mental health and wellness, whether it's a chronic illness, like, for instance, migraines is something I've navigated half my life. Um, they're there whether somebody else, whether the receiving party who's hearing this realizes that or not.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:15:32] There might be switches that kind of flip in their subconscious where now how you're perceived, um, could be visible to you whether or not that person making the judgment again, whether they're aware of it or not, whether it's, um, on the forefront of their mind, you know, whether it's unconscious bias, intentional, what have you prejudice, you recognize it. And one of the hugest stigmas for me related to invisible disability is the gaslighting that can occur. And I'll give you a small example. Oftentimes, when I've gotten very real and vulnerable about the nitty gritty of maybe an invisible disability I have, I'll notice that the receiving party and it could be a close friend, or maybe maybe more of an acquaintance. I get questioned more like, oh really? Is that true? Or, um, you know, can you it's just questioned and ways and spaces you wouldn't previously have been and that subtle subliminal gaslighting that's that takes a lot. That's a draining thing and takes a lot of energy to navigate and overcome.

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:32] Yeah, I would imagine. And it also as you shared, you know, oftentimes it makes really good health benefits. Something that is I think it's important for a lot of people, but it's sort of like something that is a non-negotiable as part of any career decisions and understandably so. Like, you need to know that you'll have access to care if and when you need it. And so as you start to think about okay, so I'm going to I'm going to move out of sort of the traditional teaching role. Where is your mind going in terms of like what makes sense then.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:17:05] Oh my goodness.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:17:07] So I thank God I had that like lightning bolt bolt moment okay. Former teacher forever educator okay, I can do this. And as soon as I work with that mantra, my mind is so much more open. So my my next pivot, basically the next two pivots happen through networking. And so something, you know, part of the things that makes me an effective but also unique career coach is because it was shown to me how open I can be with my career and successful. I then extend that to my client, you know, no, no idea is too lofty as long as we can put actions behind it. So as soon as you have your tagline, if we're using like career coaching, speak, right, your tagline or your mantra or somebody might call it an affirmation, you will be surprised how much that can open the doors for you, because I'll tell you my first career right after teaching was mortgage modifications. I was a mortgage advisor during the housing crisis, so now I'm working in finance. But I'll tell you what. I took that educator approach. It landed me the job because it turns out one of the head, the lead interviewers, was also a former teacher, you know, and because I was open to it and then I believed in it, you know, I was open to the idea. I was open to having the networking conversation. But then I believed in my ability and I believed in how it fit together. It created a really successful interview, and I was very, very successful on the job. I helped a lot. Like I think my six month in or something like that. I had the highest number of approved mortgage modifications, you know, for these people to stay in their homes during the crisis. So just you have to like, rebrand. You have to believe in it. You have to stay open minded, um, have those conversations and then market the heck out of yourself and believe in yourself. So yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:18:51] Thinking Also, as you shared earlier, your primary Sparketype was the advisor, which for those who are new to this language, it's an impulse that we all have that sort of drives our desire to work in a particular way. And the advisor is really interesting because that's the impulse. There is all about guiding others through a process of growth. Right, right. So it's like it's so fascinating to track this. Like, I'm sure this was so present, like when you showed up in a classroom and you're teaching, you're like, this is your ability to guide others. And then and then that same impulse. I'm curious, but I would guess that, like if somebody looked at how you were doing loan revisions and stuff like that or like mortgage revisions like that, there was also probably a part of you that was really trying to figure out, okay, so how do I how do I bring this advisor side to me? And also that your your shadow, the advocate, which is all about championing, you know, like those two blended together I would imagine were really powerful in those roles.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:19:44] Right, right.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:19:44] And you know, quick plug for Sparketype because I know there's an element maybe in more of a cynical mind or maybe even not, maybe just somebody who's really familiar with these assessments and their kind of bias confirmation, you know? Oh, any profile you read is you're going to relate to it. You're going to find whether it's this mBTI, whatever I have to tell you, reading through the results of primary shadow and anti for advisor, my primary type, every single characteristic I can safely say I relate to full speed ahead and then my my secondary type or my shadow type advocate the most of them I relate to, but not all of them. And so if people are really looking for accurate, authentic introspection into their career types and what drives them and motivates them and where your energies best serve you, I have to tell you. Like that was very spot on.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:38] I'm so glad to hear that. And like with it, with any of the major indexes that are out there, like nothing is ever 100% right for somebody, you know, like I always look at these and regardless of which one, it's like if it teaches me something that allows me to learn a little bit more about myself. Like I consider that I'm like, okay, so that's a win. It just helps with sort of like the overall basket of self knowledge, and then it helps you make decisions to figure out like okay, so how do I how do I actually use this in a day to day basis in my life. So so mortgage um, revisions is not where you landed though, as you've shared. Um, you kind of you've made a number of pivots. Um, but it sounds like this emerging through line between all of them has been this idea of helping other people with career development, and that has become this consistent through line, even when you're doing something else. Um, at the same time, this kind of like becomes something that's always there. Is that right?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:21:30] Oh, absolutely. I could not escape career advising or career coaching if I wanted to. And I don't want to because I love it with my whole heart and I everyone deserves the opportunity and the empowerment to love their work and to feel safe in their work and to have values alignment. So I genuinely know for a fact that career advising and coaching combines all my best strengths and interests. Whether it's marketing, resume writing, networking, you know, educating, I do curriculum development, I do workshops and presentations. And so you're right, with mortgage modifications, I love the advising component, the education component, the helping people, but it just ended up not being the right culture fit for me, which is no surprise. I came from education and now I'm in finance. And so I was networking again, and that's how I ended up working with Department of Labor as a career advisor. And from there, you know, things just took off. There was just one slight pivot in there where I had the opportunity to work in marketing fully remote in 2014. Again, I'm in the Park Ave neighborhood. I mean, you can't resist it. And I also love marketing, but I remember even when I had that role and I really enjoyed it, I was starting to like email community organizations that do community workshops be like, hey, do you need someone to do any like free career advisement. I can do a resume workshop. I'll do a LinkedIn. What do you need? What do you need? And then it turned out that the nonprofit side of business was hiring again. And I'm like, okay, well, this is meant to be because I missed this work so much. I'm trying to do it for free right now. So I'm happy to go on to the nonprofit side. And my career took off. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:23:09] I mean, that's such it's so interesting that you just said, you know, like, I would do it for free or I was doing it for free right now because that's a whisper that I think a lot of us ignore. Like, what are the things where we're actually exerting effort, like we're working, but we're doing it simply for the feeling that it gives us. And a lot of times, I think we discount that we discount those signals rather than saying, okay, so I wonder if, like, what's underneath this, what's what can I learn from this? And maybe I'm doing it on the side just because I love doing it. But is there some way to sort of redirect this impulse in a way where maybe I can make it more central to what I'm doing? It sounds like you really listen to that whisper.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:23:43] Oh, such a great point and observation. It genuinely is all about the whispers. I literally just had a coaching session. I think it was last week. Yeah. Because today's. Yeah, it was last week where we we talked about that listen to the whispers. So I know you know I mean yeah listen to what lights you up. And that's such a good point. Like what would you not mind doing for free. Like what would you do on a volunteer basis consistently? And I know that's part of the Sparketype too. Like what? What do you what would you just want to do? So I'm so grateful to be doing this work and to help other people unearth better socioeconomic advantages and status and growth, development and alignment.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:20] Yeah. So when you think about the work that you're doing now, what's important to you about it?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:24:26] So my most recent pivot as previously alluded to is within higher ed. So I still have my career coaching practice. But I had to go back to higher ed Jonathan because I might be a businesswoman, but maybe, maybe not the greatest entrepreneur. And I'll tell you why. I in good conscience could not charge students for my services. I just know too much about free resources that are out there. I know what it's like to be starting out in my career or career, pivoting to, you know, not have money. I mean, making ends meet just to get have gas money up here. And, you know, Rochester, New York. And I know students can get free advisement, high quality and advisement at higher ed. Or if you didn't graduate from college or you're not connected in that realm, that's fine. You could literally get advisement at the nonprofit where I used to work for free. And they're very, very, very good at what they do. So I'm happy to provide boutique services from my practice to people who they they know that that's what they want and they're okay paying the money.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:25:27] I'm happy to do that. But now I am not working with the populations I set out to work with, you know, under-resourced, historically marginalized. You know, I, I the first ten and a half years of my life, I grew up poorer in the city, and I know what that feels like. And then things radically shifted when my mom had her degree in chemical engineering, radically you know, ten and a half years on and later was vastly different. So I want to work with those populations. Then, even if students in that niche aren't necessarily that population, most students don't have the expendable income to spend. So I knew I had to get back into higher ed, where I could work with students in good conscience and not charge them. I could do it for free and ideally higher ed that worked with and focused and gave a lot of credence to more underserved, under-resourced populations. And so now I'm able to do both. And I'm so grateful I like I feel I can't, I have no words for it. I'm just humbled and grateful.

Jonathan Fields: [00:26:28] Yeah, I love that. You know, you're able to like to do that advisor side to really guide people through this process, to advocate for them also. And I would imagine you probably spend time with people or with students advocating for them to even advocate for themselves, you know, because it's so hard for so many of us. Um, and I love that you have this blend now where it's sort of like, you know, you're very connected to a particular group of people or community. Um, and you want to be of service to them. So you figured out a way to sort of like spend a certain amount of time doing that. And at the same time, you also know you're like, I want to live in a certain way. Um, and there are other people who would value my services differently, and b have the privilege or the resources to be able to compensate you, like differently. And so you found a way to kind of blend that in a way that feels sustainable to you. Does that make sense?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:27:19]  [00:27:19]Facts. Yes. That.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:27:21] Absolutely.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:27:22] Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:23] Very cool. Um, do you have a sense for what the future of this looks like for you? Like, do you have a vision or are you just kind of, like, present and really enjoying it?

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:27:33] Um.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:27:34] Great question. Um, I would say current day to day, day to day, especially because my endeavor within higher ed has is very recent for me. I'm very much in the moment and absorbing all of that, you know. And of course, I'm still doing my business, have my clients corporate speaking this and that, but very, very in the moment and absorbing the experience. And I'll say, I'm with Suny Empire State University and they are incredible innovative. They put students first. They are there for student retention and graduation. And you want to talk about innovative support services that are out there. That university has it. No matter your age, your demographic, you name it. So I am thrilled and honored to be there. Um, but to answer your question, in terms of like the bigger picture, you know, I genuinely do believe in manifesting. I mean, right, so even though I'm very in the moment right now and very focused on that work, I will always have my monthly goals that I review and that I visit. And, you know, I don't know if down the line I'll have more of an advocacy role with invisible disabilities. We'll have to see how that unfolds and unfurls But in the meantime, I genuinely just want to help people connect to their strengths based self, to genuinely give yourself that authentic credit you deserve. So you can connect the dots and you can access career resources in a safe, aligned way. And so whether that's students, whether that's somebody who's mid-level career pivot, um, you know, just really making sure I'm a resource to, I guess, communities, various communities. So I have my bigger picture. But I'm very in the moment right now with my newest endeavor.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:29:21] Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:21] Love it. Um, looking back over, I mean, because you've had this journey which is sort of like a lot of pivots, and then there have been these through lines that have developed, um, and essentially you've learned a lot along the way. Also, is there anything where you look sort of back at this, this work life journey that you've been on and think that you might have done something differently? Um.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:29:42] With my career? Yes. Actually, you know. So my initial.Reaction was going to say no, because I do reflect on this a lot and I love my career pivots. I am so grateful for how my career has taken shape. Part of it's been planned and purposeful and intentional, and part of it's just planned happenstance, which is the theory of career development. Right? So it's been that beautiful mix. But I will tell you, there is one thing I would have done slightly differently, and it goes back to college. So I knew for some reason when I was in high school that my definition of college was out of state. I don't know why, but I thought I had to go out of state to a bigger city that had a D1 school. So my mom's like, oh, University of Pittsburgh, right? I mean, not too far from Rochester. And I loved Pitt, I loved it, and I wouldn't change it, but what I would have done in high school is I would have paid more attention to the Sunnis. And I'm not just saying that because I'm now at a Sunni. I remember coming home from Manhattan, you know, one break from Teachers College, and my mom said, hey, why don't we stop in New Paltz? I'm like, oh, okay, what's New Paltz, you know? Oh, similar to Woodstock, you'll love it. Let's go get some food. I'm like, yeah. And then I realized there's a Suny New Paltz, and I'm like, I, I didn't even know that. And then you realize there's Suny schools up in the Adirondacks. And I'm like, why? If I could have changed one thing, I would. I didn't I didn't look at any Suny schools. Oh my gosh, I hope that's okay to say no. I'm sure it is. I didn't look at any Sunnis, and that's the one thing I would change, because there's so many valuable, beautiful opportunities within the state university system of New York. And that's what Suny means, by the way, for any listeners, State University of New York, that's the one thing I would change.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:25] I love. That. And by the way, I and my sister are both products of the Suny system. So growing up in New York and going to State University of New York was was definitely like, great for both of us. Um, so as we wrap up our conversation, um, any sort of like final, um, words of wisdom maybe you might offer our listeners that might come to mind.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:31:48] Yes. Practical word of wisdom. Please listen to the July 9th recording of SPARKED with Kim Scott. Because radical candor, that's on my to buy list. But if you need any pro tips, very digestible, related to self-advocacy and healthy boundaries, that is the episode for you. That's a game changer. Number one practical tip. Number two, I tell people, if you can reflect back upon your career and and you were tasked with creating a narrative as to why it makes sense, even if you felt like XYZ was out of your control, this didn't go as planned. This went awry. If you could look back and reframe and come up with a narrative for you that ties it together, now you're being strengths based. You're having growth mindset because you're looking at the opportunities that are there. Do that, do that. Give yourself your hero story related to your career and[00:32:46] you will see [00:32:46] how the bigger picture fits together and how you will become your own best champion. Because I promise you, there were really pro moves you made along the way that you might not have been aware of, but they're there and they exist. So own and hone your own career story and kind of, you know, teacher backward planning. Start backwards start start there and then build up. That's that's my biggest pro tip.

Jonathan Fields: [00:33:13] Love that. Thank you so much for sharing. And thanks so much for for sharing your journey and your story. Appreciate it.

Barbara Ellen Leicht: [00:33:18] Thank you so much, Jonathan.

Jonathan Fields: [00:33:23] And if you'd like to share your career transformation story on the SPARKED podcast, to inspire others to maybe feel less stuck or unsure about their own career paths, we encourage you to apply to be a guest and check out the form in the show notes, because we believe that everyone deserves to find fulfillment and purpose in their work. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive. That brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.