Unlock Productivity, Creativity & Memory with the 5 Senses

LinkedIn (00:00:00) 

LinkedIn (00:00:15) - LinkedIn Presents.

Jonathan Fields (00:00:27) - So what if your five senses secretly controlled pretty much everything from your mood to your creativity, intelligence, memory, or even your ability to succeed and work in life? Well, we all tend to take our senses for granted, using them pretty much automatically without thinking about it. But what if curating sensory experiences was a hidden gateway to so much of what we want out of work in life? Well, that's what we're exploring in today's episode of Sparked with our special guest, Gretchen Rubin. So Gretchen is one of today's most influential and thought-provoking observers of happiness and human nature, and she's the author of many bestselling books like The Happiness Project Better Than Before and The Four Tendencies, which have sold millions of copies in more than 30 languages.

Jonathan Fields (00:01:13) - Her most recent book is Life in Five Senses. She's also the host of the popular podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin and founder of the award-winning Happier App. So in today's episode is part this is a hot take episode, but with a twist. This conversation originally aired as a LinkedIn live, so after we teased out the topic, we were able to take some listener questions live and answer in real-time. And if you would like to join us next time, we're going live on LinkedIn. Go ahead and subscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter called Sparked to get notified and you'll find that link in the show notes. In this conversation, Gretchen shares how a routine eye exam sparked an investigation into sensory perception that led to some really surprising insights a years-long research project and eventually a book. What did she discover about the senses that maybe we're missing in our constant busyness? And how could an everyday experience prompt a mission to uncover the secrets of our senses? And how do our senses impact us in the context of work? Can we curate, smell, sound sights and textures to achieve optimal states for different tasks? Imagine having a sensory toolkit to spark creativity or find focus and flow.

Jonathan Fields (00:02:34) - How do we navigate shared work environments with diverse sensory preferences and sensitivities? Because tapping into our senses can really profoundly impact our productivity, memory, creativity and presence. And it's a deeply personal experience. And this conversation is an invitation to really reexamine your own sensory world and notice your preferences and aversions. Excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is Sparked. Hey, before we dive into today's show, you know, we've learned that a lot of our listeners are sort of at this moment where they're really exploring the notion of work in their lives and their next moves in their careers. And if you are in that place, we talk about the spark and the sparketypes a lot on this show, this body of work that we've developed to help you really identify what makes you come alive and how to apply that to the world of work. We've heard from a lot of folks that they would also love some help along that journey. If you're curious, you can also find on our website a directory of Certified Sparketype Advisors who know this body of work and can really help coach and guide you through it.

Jonathan Fields (00:03:46) - So we'll drop a link to the show notes in that right now. And if it feels interesting to you and you just like somebody to help guide you through this next part of your career or work journey, take a look and see if somebody resonates. It might be the perfect fit to help you along this next leg of your journey. Again, that link is in the show notes now.

LinkedIn (00:04:14)

Jonathan Fields (00:04:45) - Hello. Hello. Hello. It is so great to be hanging out. I am here. I'm Jonathan Fields, here with my dear friend, old friend, sometimes collaborator and conspirator and all sorts of creative and fun stuff.

Jonathan Fields (00:04:56) - Gretchen Rubin, author of many incredible and amazing books, a super long running blog and curiosity around even like, why write about the Five Senses? I mean, it's not like they're new, but there's a whole new take. Like you bring so much new insight and exploration into these things. And I thought because, you know, part of this is going live on the LinkedIn platform also, it might be interesting to explore the role of the senses in the world of work, how we contribute to the world, how we show up in our day to day thing that we do. So Gretchen, welcome. Excited to dive in.

Gretchen Rubin (00:05:32) - I'm so happy to be talking to you, Jonathan. We talk shop all the time, so it's fun to get to talk about work and with the special lens of using the five senses. I'm so happy to be talking to you today.

Jonathan Fields (00:05:44) - Yeah. And for everyone listening in also and watching and Gretchen and I are going to jam on a whole bunch of ideas for a little bit.

Jonathan Fields (00:05:50) - And then probably about a half an hour into this, we're going to go for about 45 minutes or so. We will open it up. So if you have questions or comments that you share, what kind of be tracking them. And then after our first opening conversation, we'll we'll feed some of those in or take some live questions. So stick around If you have things, share them in the comments and we will dive in from there. But Gretchen, let's dive in. You've written a number of books and the way that your brain works, your brain works in frameworks, you love to see patterns and then go really deep into them. And I remember a couple of years back when we were talking and you said, you know, I'm just completely geeking out on the senses these days. And to the extent where eventually it becomes this incredible book, what brings you to this exploration of the five senses that on a level that makes you say, I'm literally going to invest in years of work and research, which would eventually lead to a book.

Gretchen Rubin (00:06:43) - So looking back, I see that I had become very preoccupied with color. I went through a big period of being really preoccupied with color. I've always loved the sense of smell, and when I wrote Happier at Home, I wrote a lot about the sense of smell, but I didn't really quite understand what I was interested in. And then I went to the eye doctor because I had a bad case of pinkeye. And he said to me, Oh, you know, you're more at risk of losing your vision, so be sure to come back for your checkup right away. And I was completely startled. I had no idea that I was more at risk of losing my vision, which is because I'm very nearsighted. It turns out I'm at risk for having a detached retina. And so when he told me this, like, oh, you know, this is a real thing for you to worry about, it just shocked me into this recognition of everything that I was taking for granted. You know, I think a lot of times we don't appreciate what we have until we lose it or until we fear we might lose it.

Gretchen Rubin (00:07:33) - And I just realized here I am thinking that I so value my sense of sight, and yet I don't pay any attention to my sense of sight walking. I live in New York City. I walked the eye doctor. I didn't notice one thing on my way over. And so that really showed me that what I needed to do was to like, really stop and pay attention to my five senses. And that was the missing piece in connecting with the world and other people and with myself.

Jonathan Fields (00:07:57) - Yeah, I mean, it's so powerful when we have those moments, sort of like an inciting incident that triggers something, something else like, yes, the original intention was just like, Hey, take care of your vision. And but for you, you're like, Wait a minute, there's this thing that I don't even really think about on a daily basis. Let me go into it and understand what role it's really playing in my life. And that then expands into what about beyond vision? Like, what are the other things? And I think it's interesting also because we live in a world these days where I feel like so many, we live from our head, we live in a cognitive way.

Jonathan Fields (00:08:27) - We're always trying to think our way through life and not so much sense our way through life. But I feel like this work for you is a bit of a rally cry to say like we need to expand and actually like the senses add so much to the way that we take in and experience the world that might not really paying attention to them. We're cutting out a huge amount of what we can experience.

Gretchen Rubin (00:08:51) - Absolutely. And I think this is one of the reasons why one of the big marketing claims for things these days is it's immersive. This museum exhibit is immersive. The store is immersive. This, you know, experience is immersive because if we hear that something's immersive, it's just like it just feels very exciting because I think we do feel out of balance with our senses because some senses are sort of drained and flattened, like because we see things through screens, but then some are sort of hyper processed the way a food will hit every bliss point possible. And so everything feels either flat or spiky. And so really engaging with all of our five senses feels like energizing and calming at the same time.

Gretchen Rubin (00:09:31) - And you're absolutely right about how we can harness the five senses. And one of the things that really surprised me in writing five The Life and Five Senses was, yeah, I mean, I went into it thinking that it would make me happier. But what I found is that kind of no matter what we're trying to achieve. We can use the five senses for that, even for things that seem to be pointing in opposite direction. So like, let's say you need more calm and serenity. You can harness the five senses. Let's say you need more energy, you can harness the five senses. Let's say you need to focus in and like do drudge work, like really focused hard, boring work, which we all have to do from time to time. You can use your five senses to make that easier. Or if you want to spark your creativity and get outside the box, you can use your five senses for that. You can use it to appreciate the moment. A lot of people want to like really like be present in the moment.

Gretchen Rubin (00:10:16) - You can use the five senses for that or you can use it to evoke memories. Of course, that's one of the superpowers of the senses is powers is its power to evoke memories. And so you might be seeking one thing and I might be seeking another and you might like not even have all five, all of those five senses. But it's such a flexible it's like the Swiss Army knife, whatever we're trying to achieve and wherever we're starting from, there's probably a way to tap into the five senses to do that.

Jonathan Fields (00:10:42) - Yeah, I love that Swiss Army knife analogy because it's sort of like, what's the moment that I'm in? Or even what's the task that I have at hand or the challenge that I'm facing? And like, how do I look at that Swiss Army knife or Swiss sense knife, Right, Yeah. Which ones do we flip out? Which ones do we harness? Which ones do we use here and what are the benefits or which ones do we fold back into it? Right. Because maybe sometimes it actually makes more sense to, like, tamp one down.

Jonathan Fields (00:11:08) - Absolutely. And you've been representing the five senses. But one of the interesting things that I found in the book was that you also referenced these three other senses that people don't really talk about proprioception equilibria, deception and interception. Talk to me just a minute about those, because I think most people haven't heard of them. I hadn't heard of proprioception before, but not the other two. What are they and why do they actually matter to you?

Gretchen Rubin (00:11:29) - Well, they all matter. So, I mean, actually, I talk about five senses, which you could call the kindergarten senses, or you could also call the Aristotelian senses. And there's something special about these five senses. I argue there are actually, like you mentioned, three. I give the example of three in the book. There's actually like 33 or 35 additional senses. And imagine that they will identify more. And what's interesting is like these senses are extremely they're fascinating and they're very important to our sense of vitality. And just, you know, going through the world, they are very much running in the background.

Gretchen Rubin (00:12:01) - They're much more like breathing. Breathing is really important. But you don't think about breathing unless somehow it becomes an issue. Whereas with the Big five, you know, they have a glamour. We think about them, we use them for pleasure, we notice them. There's so much more at the center of our awareness and we have very clear like organs that do them. Whereas with something like interception, it's like that's like deep stuff. Not that it's not important, it's extremely important, but it's far more subtle. It's not so much part of our conscious awareness. And in what I'm interested in researching, I'm always most interested in like what can you influence with your conscious thoughts and actions? So I'm not interested in things particularly like dopamine, because I can't consciously do anything about my dopamine, but I can consciously decide to go outside for 20 minutes. That's why I touch on those additional senses, but I don't really explore them because they really they're not in the forefront of our awareness the way the Big Five are.

Jonathan Fields (00:12:59) - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. One of the things so focusing in on those Big five, it's kind of interesting that there's an overlay between, you know, the big five personality traits and the big five senses too. I wonder if there's like a crossover there in some meaningful way. But one of the things that you offer also is that senses prioritize, not stasis but change. And I thought that's a really interesting point. Take me into that a little bit more.

Gretchen Rubin (00:13:23) - Yeah, so the brain is editing, so you may feel like you're out in the objective world of sort of what is happening, but that is not the case. Your brain is making all kinds of decisions, assumptions. It's bringing certain things to the front and put it pushing other things to the back. And this is one of the most I mean, I knew this intellectually going in, but I have to say this just is bonkers. The degree to which this is true. Part of its genetics. Maybe you're a super taster so things taste more bitter to you or you have color blindness.

Gretchen Rubin (00:13:53) - Part of it is your culture. Certain cultures hear sounds in a different way, and so over time, they don't hear the same kinds of sounds that in another culture and another language they would hear sounds. And then part of it is just like your own preferences, your own idiosyncratic experiences. And so the brain is very much deciding what to push into the forefront and what to push to the back background. And one of the things that's most interested is change, because change means danger and opportunity. So if I throw a rock at you, you're going to notice that flying through the air, if there's a rock at your feet, you might not notice. One of the most, I think, surprising ways that you can see this happening in everyday life is with smell. So if you if Jonathan, if I had you come over to my apartment, you would smell my apartment in a way very different from the way I smell it, because to me, I smell it all the time. So my brain brings all that in.

Gretchen Rubin (00:14:44) - Formation of the background. I can't really smell my own apartment. You. Your eyes could be watering from the smell of the dog food or the wet coats or just, you know, whatever. But because I'm so accustomed to that smell, I would not register it, whereas you would. We can't smell our home the way guests would smell it. If I went away for a month, then I could come back and I could smell it. So this is just one of these remarkable things where, you know, and I quit sugar. I write about this in the book. I quit sugar like 12 years ago. And one of the things that always puzzled me is people would say, well, why is it that you're not more like tempted by all these food cues and thought, Well, why am I not tempted by all those food cues? Because I'm really not. And then I realize it's because my brain is just decided that information isn't important. It's not that I don't smell the insomnia cookies or the Auntie Anne's and the airport, but it's happening very dimly in the background.

Gretchen Rubin (00:15:37) - It's not important change information that my brain is bringing to the front the way for somebody else who's like really looking around for that might experience that information. So we're all living our own brew of sensations.

Jonathan Fields (00:15:51) - Yeah. So let's dive into the five different senses a little bit more. And we start off with Smell here. So let's explore it a little bit more. When you mentioned senses earlier without using the phrase kind of talked about the capacity for certain senses to allow us to time travel, and I feel like smell may be one of those senses that really it lets us literally go back sometimes decades in time because like there's something about an aroma or a scent that puts us in some past setting and it can be so visceral, almost like we're back there. Is that something that you saw recurring as a common association with smell?

Gretchen Rubin (00:16:27) - All the senses do that. Absolutely. And I think for some people smell is is particularly powerful, but like that is a superpower of the senses generally. That's called a Proustian memory.

Gretchen Rubin (00:16:37) - That's a memory that's been triggered by a sensation because, of course, Proust very famously was flooded with memories when he tasted a cookie dipped in lime tea. And I love the sense of smell. So for me, that association is very powerful. I think that also smell it happens to us unawares. Like if you open up a photo album, you kind of expect to be like flooded by old memories, but with a smell like you're just walking down the street and all of a sudden you're back in your kindergarten classroom or you're back in your freshman year of college, just completely out of nowhere. And it feels so, so powerful and so overwhelming. It's one of my favorite things about the sense of smell and the senses generally.

Jonathan Fields (00:17:16) - Yeah, I love that. And it does make sense actually. Now you're saying that all of them have some ability to let you time travel. One of the things that you explore around smell also is how smell can sometimes affect our decision making process and in particular in our choices around food and even well-being choices more broadly.

Jonathan Fields (00:17:33) - And it's interesting because I never really thought about the fact that the smell might really be a critical thing in my choices and also in my good or bad choices. If you want to label them good or bad or healthy or unhealthy choices, bridge that gap a little bit for me.

Gretchen Rubin (00:17:48) - Well, the sense of smell is absolutely connected with a sense of taste. And I think this is something that a lot of people weren't very aware of until Covid, where, you know, sadly, a lot of people, a lot of people didn't realize that it was their sense of smell that had been affected until they noticed that they weren't tasting things as well. It's interesting, you know, the five basic taste sweet, sour, salty, bitter and yummy. And if you don't have a sense of smell, you really just do not get flavor, which is taste and smell combined. And a fun way to test this, just like in your own home, is like to take something like a jelly belly, put it in your mouth with your nose plugged, and you will get just like a strong hit of sweet.

Gretchen Rubin (00:18:27) - But if you unplug your nose, then you will get the complex flavors coming into your mouth. Those two are very, very closely associated. Many people who have lost their sense of smell, whether from Covid or for for any reason, often find that it's that it is harder to eat healthily. Some people and this is what they saw after with people affected by Covid, some people lose a lot of weight because they can't. Nothing tastes good. Right? Right. And then some people kind of gain weight because they can't get satisfied. So it really does for a lot of people, mess with their with their sense of taste.

Jonathan Fields (00:19:02) - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. In your research, did you find connections between smell and I'm thinking like in a day to day work context, cognitive function or creativity or thinking or focus, like did that pop up at all?

Gretchen Rubin (00:19:16) - I think a lot of people have rituals related to like, okay, it's time to get to work. And I think we've all heard that research that it's very helpful if you have a little bit of a ritual, whether it's to help you go to sleep at night or get focused.

Gretchen Rubin (00:19:30) - It's a little bit of a starting system to get your brain in the mode of like, okay, now what are we doing? And what I found and I didn't know this is a lot of people will light a candle so that they will associate. Like the smell of a certain candle with okay, now it is work time now because back to this idea we were talking about with the fact that it's changed. You only smell that candle for a few minutes and then you become accustomed to it. It fades out. This was something that I had never thought to do, but to use it as part of a starting ritual. Now, I will have to say that one of the things this is the kind of thing that maybe you can do more if you're working from home because many, many people in the workplace do not like scented things and they do not want you lighting your pine scented candle or whatever. I wear perfume at night. I don't really wear perfume out anymore because because a lot of people don't like that.

Gretchen Rubin (00:20:19) - But it can be a great way to harness the sense of smell. It's kind of a starting ritual. And to cue your brain, like, now it's time to focus. But I will say sometimes people think that like, lavender is calming. These are purely associations. There is nothing inherent in that sense of smell. These are all just associations that we've learned, which is not to say that they are not effective. It's just to say like, you don't have to worry about like, I'm going to pick the wrong thing because whatever is the right thing for you is the right answer.

Jonathan Fields (00:20:49) - Got it. So like, lavender could be agitating for one person in common? Absolutely. Yeah.

Gretchen Rubin (00:20:54) - In Brazil, lavender is considered energizing. So that's just there. Associational, you know, it's the way they associate it. So yeah, no, for one person, coffee could be energizing and for another one coffee could be like deadening, like, oh my gosh, it makes you reminds you of that horrible job that I had where it just like smelled like burnt coffee in the minute I smell it, I'm filled with a sense of dread.

Gretchen Rubin (00:21:15) - Right? So that smell doesn't have a positive association. You wouldn't invoke it, but for someone else, it could be terrific.

Jonathan Fields (00:21:21) - That also brings me to a question about sight. Sort of like moving into the seeing sense, because there is that also we've heard those claims like there's a research supposedly that this particular color of pink.

Gretchen Rubin (00:21:34) - Yeah. Drunk. Pink, pink.

Jonathan Fields (00:21:35) - Yeah. Drunk tank pink, right. Yeah. Just prove prisoners come make people who are like their come. And what you're saying is that color may affect us in different ways, but it's the association. It's more of like an individual behavioral overlay than the fact. Yes, this color affects everybody in this same way. These are.

Gretchen Rubin (00:21:51) - Cultural associations. It's interesting. This is not true for taste because taste is lethal. Like nature needs us to come into the world knowing. So even a newborn baby is attracted to something sweet because that's often associated with nutrients and is will reject something bitter because that's often associated with toxins. Now, as like with time, we can learn to sort of overcome that reluctance to have bitterness that's, you know, like drinking coffee or whatever.

Gretchen Rubin (00:22:21) - But this is something that is hardwired. It is universal because there are killer tastes. And we need to know that from the beginning. But there are no killer smells and there are no killer colors. But again, it's not that they don't influence us or affect us, but it's just that this is something that we bring to it. So this is like if you're in a workplace and somebody I think a lot of times people feel like what their reality is, is the objective reality. Like somebody might say, look, having instrumental music playing in the background will help everybody focus more. Know that might work great for you, but that's not like a universal truth. Some people need silence like me. Some people need like a busy clatter, like in a like in a crowded coffee shop. Or some people might say a crowded desk means a crowded mind. And if we want to, like, think creatively and productively, we need to get rid of all the clutter. But some people like that visual noise.

Gretchen Rubin (00:23:10) - They like abundance and profusion and piles and a lot going on, and that is what helps them work. And so a lot of these things, they're really about preferences. And I think that that's part of what we need to bring with the five senses we need to think about. Okay, it's not what's objectively true, but what is true for me, what is true for you. And given that reality, how can we create an environment where we both feel comfortable and we can both thrive instead of arguing about who's right? Because with a lot of these things, it really is. It's just a matter of sensory preferences.

Jonathan Fields (00:23:40) - Yeah, I love that because it also frees us up and says like there's nothing right or wrong with us if you don't experience it. Well, the way that we're told.

Gretchen Rubin (00:23:47) - To it, Absolutely. And I think a lot of times people do think like, well, what is wrong with me? Here's an interesting thing in terms of like people sort of understanding themselves and others.

Gretchen Rubin (00:23:56) - So I have a quiz called the What's Your Neglected Sense Quiz? And you can go to Gretchen Rubin slash quiz and take it. It's free, it's quick, it's super fun. And what it tells you is what is your neglected sense? Because most of us have appreciated senses and neglected. So you're appreciated since it's something that you love, like you're interested in it, you want to learn more about it, you want to have new experiences with it. You use it to engage with other people. You turn to it for comfort and pleasure, and then with your neglected sense. It's not like you don't use that sense just in a kind of utilitarian way, but it's not something you're interested in. You don't try to learn about it. You don't try to like seek out new adventures. You don't use it to engage with other people. You don't use it for pleasure or comfort. So knowing your neglected sense can help you figure out like new. It's low hanging fruit. It's like new things that you can try to get.

Gretchen Rubin (00:24:44) - To get pleasure to connect with other people. But what is interesting is like this is not scientifically proven because of selection bias. But now that I've seen now the tens of thousands of people have taken the quiz, the neglected census are very surprisingly even divided among the five. And so you might say like, well, nobody cares about the sense of smell. Well, maybe you don't care about the sense of smell, but other people don't care about this sense of hearing, or other people don't care about the sense of touch. But then when it comes to the most appreciated, well, they're there to clear winners. Jonathan, take a guess of the five senses. What do you think are the two kind of favorite most appreciated?

Jonathan Fields (00:25:21) - I mean, I would imagine sight and hearing or seeing and hearing. Okay.

Gretchen Rubin (00:25:25) - It's hearing and tasting. And I bet the reason that you pick sight is the reason I thought it would never be a neglected sense, which is we are hardwired for sight just as human beings.

Gretchen Rubin (00:25:37) - It's got the most real estate in the brain. It's got the most sophisticated circuitry. We're wired for sight. So I thought it would not be neglected by anyone and that it would be one of the top two appreciated. It's not the truth. It's not the case. It's a utilitarian sense. It's one that we all draw on if we have a sense of sight, but it's not necessarily one that we're particularly neglect or appreciate, which I just think it's fascinating. But you can see how like in a workplace where different people are coming together, it's just so easy to assume that other people experience the way the world we, the way we do, that they work best, the way we work and don't realize like, okay, we really have to step back and understand we could all be bringing something very different to the table. How do we work that out?

Jonathan Fields (00:26:19) - Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm just thinking, you know, when I think about taste, I would imagine the average person probably doesn't spend a lot of time moving around the world seeking out specific things to stimulate the sense of sight.

Jonathan Fields (00:26:33) - And yet every night when we think about what do we have for dinner, we're making a decision based on seeking a particular taste experience.

Gretchen Rubin (00:26:42) - Well, it's funny because my sister so I have a podcast the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast and my host is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. And the funny thing about listening to me is we both took the quiz and we got the same result taste. And if you look at us, it's like we never when we're together, we never go out to a nice restaurant. Neither one of us cooks. And a question that both of us often ask me, to your point about dinner every night, is it's not uncommon for us to be in a restaurant to ask somebody else what we like. Like I will often ask my husband, do I like that? Do I like fennel? Do I like flounder? I can't even remember. He's a much better better at telling what I like than what I am. And you're like, How are you so detached from your own preferences that somebody else knows better than you how to predict what you would enjoy? And yet that is that is the case.

Gretchen Rubin (00:27:29) - So it is very funny. I mean, I was talking to somebody about sense of hearing. He is a huge music person and he was saying that when he goes to a restaurant, to him, the playlist is just as important as the taste of the food. And that if he doesn't enjoy the playlist, like it's like he doesn't enjoy the restaurant. And I said, Well, to me it's the light because sight is one of my most appreciated senses. And if like the light, like those new environmentally friendly lights often to me look really, really ugly. And I'll be like, Oh, I don't like being in this restaurant because the light is so awful and other people won't care at all. You know, to them, the taste of the food is the most important to me. The taste of the food is like not that important. But now I'm really trying to pay more attention, read all the ingredients and really appreciate it and really notice it instead of just gulping it down the way I did, you know, in the past because and now, now I'm enjoying it much more because I've really taught myself the value of paying attention.

Jonathan Fields (00:28:24) - I'm thinking about this in the context of day to day and the way that we like to live also. Right. And on two levels. One, just as an individual these days, so many people work remotely. But even whether you work at home, whether you work in an office setting, I think a lot of what you're inviting people to do is understand that, like these five senses, they're powerful contributors to the way that we experience everything that we do throughout the day, the way that we feel, the way that we create, the way that we receive, and that maybe instead of just not paying a whole lot of attention to the environment that we actually step into, really pay attention on a sensory level, on a hearing level, a sight level, a sense of what is going to actually allow me to be in the optimal state.

Gretchen Rubin (00:29:08) - Absolutely. And I mean, this was certainly something that I found of myself, is that I was far too passive. Like I wasn't thinking like, well, how do I create a sound environment that will really help me to do my best work? I'm going to be interested to know in the comments, okay, People say in the comments, Do you prefer silence when you're doing your most intense work? Silence.

Gretchen Rubin (00:29:26) - Busy hum. Like in a coffee shop. Music with no words. Music with words. Same song on a loop. I did not know. Some people will listen to the same song over and over. This. This is bonkers to me. But many people said or some people will deliberately go someplace like a train station because they feel like a cacophony actually helps them to focus. Let's see what people are saying, because it's fascinating to see. Okay, silence. Yeah, I love silence. Jonathan, what do you like? I'm guessing you like silence, too. Yeah. Or ambient music. Yeah, that kind of.

Jonathan Fields (00:29:57) - Either like silence or coffee shop type of things.

Gretchen Rubin (00:29:59) - That's what I like. I like a coffee shop or like an airport waiting room. I can do that. But I would never, never listen to music. But. Or even something like Smells like. Yeah, like, let's say you're in the office and the fridge just smells terrible. It's like, we can do something about that, you know, because it's sometimes it's these minor irritations, clothes that are a little bit too tight, a little bit too heavy, a little bit too scratchy.

Gretchen Rubin (00:30:23) - Like one thing that's easy to do when you're working from home is like. Like had the light be off. Like, if you go like this in your eyes feel relief, the light in your face is too bright. That can happen a lot when you've got like lots of screens and just thinking to yourself like, how do I either bring in more pleasure and beauty and delight or like little things to make it easier. Like I have a fidget spinner that I will use during a zoom call because it just it helps me to fidgeting with something with my hands, helps me to concentrate like on along on a long video call, looking for things or to eliminate things that are distracting or draining because these little sensory irritations can just weigh us down. And a lot of times they're not that hard to address. Once we just take a minute and say, Well, given that my best work is done in silence or busy coffee shop, how do I get to myself to a place where that is what I have instead? Or like if I need a very orderly, like a very visually orderly one, well, then it's going to be worth my time every day to, like, put everything away and like, really get that clean desk that's going to help me concentrate instead of thinking like, Well, I'm in the middle of this project.

Gretchen Rubin (00:31:32) - I'm not going to dig myself out until it's over. It's that sort of draining and distracting you. It's something that you can address.

Jonathan Fields (00:31:38) - Yeah, I love this ability of like harnessing the senses to create the state that feels optimal for those we're in. Right? And I was and we haven't really talked about touch at all, but touch for me is a really, really powerful sense. And I realized that it happens in so many different ways. And you were just describing this like, what do you prefer, silence or solitude or. And I realize that oftentimes when I am trying to to be in a really focused creative mode, I often wear mala beads on my wrist and I'll take them off and use them as counting beads on my fingers. And like I literally I don't have them on today, but I just go one by one almost subconsciously. I'll just keep them in my lap. Sometimes even in a meeting, I'll have them under the table. Yeah, I'll pull it off my wrist and one hand will just be sort of like doing the counting bead thing.

Jonathan Fields (00:32:26) - And I find that like that touch sensation, it really allows me to sort of down regulate my nervous system, become very calm and focused. And I think I just defaulted to it as almost like an automatic behavior rather than saying, Oh, like I'm consciously going to do this, I wonder how many of us actually explore different senses for particular intended outcomes without even realizing that we're doing it.

Gretchen Rubin (00:32:54) - Oh, and I'll tell you something that I did that's very much like yours. And again, this is something when I was writing Life in Five Senses, it gave me insight into behavior that I had never questioned, but then kind of made sense. I hold a pen and I do it for like, anxiety.

Jonathan Fields (00:33:07) - So I'm thinking, I think I've like for years I felt like holding a pen.

Gretchen Rubin (00:33:11) - I love holding a pen and like I'm going into a cocktail party where I don't know anybody like, why do I need a pen? I don't. Or I'm behind stage getting ready to give like a big keynote.

Gretchen Rubin (00:33:21) - I'm not taking any notes, but holding a pen, I think it's like. And I don't even, like, put it from hand to hand. I just hold it. But I've talked to a lot of people who. You've got your beads. That's great because it's always with you. But I've talked to people who hold a clipboard or hold a coffee mug or maybe they have like a small stone. And there's something about it's the sense of touch. It makes us feel grounded. But you're right, once you consciously know it, then you're like, okay, let me make sure that I have that with me. If I think that I'm going to go, I'm going to be traveling and I'm going to have all this time to be working while I'm on the road, I want to have this tool with me because this is something that's actually helpful for me. Or like if I'm backstage, I'm like, Let me make sure that I have a pen because I know that's going to help me feel more grounded.

Gretchen Rubin (00:34:03) - And so whatever that thing is and again, it's we're harnessing one of our senses without realizing that we're doing it. But then when we become conscious of it, then we can harness it much more explicitly and effectively. One thing I wanted to mention, because so many people have told me that they are finding this fun, is to do a five senses journal. So if you're trying to dial into your senses but you're like, you need a little help remembering to do it because it can be hard to remember to pay attention to the senses. This is you just every day write down a notable association or memory and it doesn't have to be your favorite thing. It's just something that you noticed as you went about your day. So like, let's say you're walking down the street and you smelled movie popcorn. So under smell, it's because what is smell? That is right. Movie popcorn, just right down movie popcorn. And what this does is it helps you to remember to be looking for those sensations as you go through your day.

Gretchen Rubin (00:34:55) - And it also kind of acts like a gratitude journal because you feel like, oh, I'm paying tribute to the beauty of the world. And when I started this, because for me, you know, it's easy to feel changed, but it's harder to stay changed. I just did it in like a notebook. But then I actually created this like, very cool notebook that's specifically for recording the Five Senses. So then you can use it as a keepsake. Like if it's an important time where you want to hang on to those sensations, like a different kind of journal that's like easier to keep and yet allows you to sort of record some important elements of your day. That is just something that sense life. And Five Senses came out I've been hearing from a lot of people is something that they're finding to be useful and they're in different ways.

Jonathan Fields (00:35:35) - I love that. What's your take on potentially choosing like a sense of the day to focus on?

Gretchen Rubin (00:35:41) - I think that could be really fun to the way this journal is set up.

Gretchen Rubin (00:35:44) - It's like each month it's a six month journal and each month it says, Give this one special attention, but do all five. But there's no right way or wrong way to do this. You could easily say five senses, five days of the week. This is something that, like you could have Monday be seeing. You could do it any way you want it. And I think that's part of what's fun and creative about things like this. It's like it's however you would want to do it, whatever you would want to bring to it. Maybe you take the quiz and you discover that your most neglected senses touch and you think, okay, well how could I bring. So let me spend a month thinking about every day, like, how could I have more pleasant touches, more interesting touches, eliminate things that I don't like to touch of. I don't like the touch of sisal, you know, that kind of like, Oh, it gives me the willies. I like silk. Some people, I thought everybody likes silk.

Gretchen Rubin (00:36:30) - Turns out it's a very controversial thing to feel like a lot of people don't like it. So maybe you got a pair.

Jonathan Fields (00:36:34) - Of silk fur. I much prefer sisal than silk.

Gretchen Rubin (00:36:37) - Really?

Gretchen Rubin (00:36:37) - There you go. See? Okay, so maybe I don't know that you've got a pair of silk pajamas, Jonathan, but if you did, you're like, Why don't I get rid of those? Because actually, I don't like, I don't like the feeling of like, like a cotton shirt, you know, like a regular cotton button down shirt. It kind of gives me the willies. So it's like, okay, let's replace that with something that has a texture that like, anyway, a person could do this in any way. There is no right way, the wrong way. It's whatever would be fun and and help you feel like you were connecting with your senses in a way that helped you to concentrate, helped you to be creative, helped you to feel calm, yet energetic. Spark ideas. There's lots of things you could do.

Jonathan Fields (00:37:14) - Love that. So we have a couple of questions here. So let's start out with Annette, who asked, wondering how to incorporate senses in an office where we're not often in control of our environment. And I have to imagine this comes up all the time.

Gretchen Rubin (00:37:25) - It comes up all the time. And I think this is one of the really big issues with the open plan, because in the open plan we have so little control. So I think the first thing to do is consideration for others. And so there's just certain things where there just probably should not be done, like playing music that other people can listen to. There's something, a smell, putting a perfume into the air, things like that. But then you get into tricky things. Like for me, I'm a I'm a, I'm a simplicity lover. I don't like a lot of things going on, but other people are abundance lovers. And who am I to tell you what your station needs to look like? But if I'm looking at your mess, that kind of is a drain on me.

Gretchen Rubin (00:38:01) - And it can become it can become very, very tricky. And I think that what's best is to have an open conversation and just to be very forthcoming about what are my preferences, what are your preferences. So it's not that we're arguing like who's right and therefore that person should win, but more like given what we all want, how do we come to an agreement that will help all of us? And to just deal with that honestly, rather than muttering to themselves about how inconsiderate other people are, because truly that person may not even realize. Because if that person doesn't notice it, they don't realize they're being inconsiderate. You think they're being inconsiderate. They just simply just have no idea what to think about how to do that. But I also think it really is helpful to know yourself, go into it knowing what is your preference, because if you never think about it, you might think like, Oh yeah, I'm fine. If you guys are playing classical music over the loudspeakers, because I never thought about the fact that really that doesn't help me think, that does not help me concentrate.

Gretchen Rubin (00:38:57) - So we sort of have to start with self-knowledge and then once we know ourselves and sort of what our ideal situation would be, then we can take that into the office and think about, okay, well, how might we create something better? And then there are things that often a lot of people like, like, you know, maybe if we had a couple plants in here, it would make it feel more inviting, more alive. Can we all agree that we will do the work to take care of a couple of plants? If everybody's like, Yeah, on the days that I come in, I'll do what needs to be done. On the days you come in, you do, and then we'll all enjoy having these plants that will add a lot to an environment that many people will find beneficial, or we've let a bunch of stuffs to see. How many offices have you walked in? They have so much stuff in front of the windows. You guys can have so much more nice light in here if you just like got rid of all that clutter.

Gretchen Rubin (00:39:40) - People are just stacking stuff up on the windowsills because it's it's sort of like unclaimed territory. So you could put stuff there and and then just walk away from it. But I agree this is a big issue in shared space. It is shared kitchens, huge issue. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (00:39:53) - And I would imagine also do the negotiation and then maybe even in addition to that, think about, okay, so we've gotten partway there, but I'm still not all the way there. What can I do? Just like on my own? Like, is there can I wear a noise canceling headphones? Can I wear sun like eyeglasses with a certain tint that just creates a more a better visual environment for me, or maybe like a white noise machine or something like this? Absolutely. There are probably little things that you can do that would pretty much just affect you that what might help get you over the line.

Gretchen Rubin (00:40:23) - Absolutely. And if anybody watching has suggestions of things that they've done themselves or that they've seen other people do effectively put it in, because we can all learn from each other.

Gretchen Rubin (00:40:30) - And this is just such a common issue. I mean, one one thing that people is temperature, right? Which is sort of touch. It's something where, you know, people just some people run hot, some people run cold. But there I think people understand that that one person's level of comfort is is not someone else's. It's they don't. But but it's a big issue. It's a it's a very good thing to raise. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (00:40:54) - Next question. How do you negotiate the line between becoming aware of our senses and becoming overwhelmed by them?

Gretchen Rubin (00:41:01) - Well, this is a great question and this is very, very individual. And, you know, of course, people with sensory processing differences even experienced this more where they would be, you know, have such a heightened awareness. Or on the other hand, maybe like, you know, less awareness. So there's a huge range here. And I do think that this is a place where maybe in the last call it ten years, people have become much more aware.

Gretchen Rubin (00:41:22) - And I think just as a as a culture, we become much more considerate of understanding that certain things might be overwhelming and to try to show consideration for that. But we could all do a better job. When you're talking about managing yourself again, I think it starts with this idea of self awareness. Jonathan How many things start with self awareness?

Jonathan Fields (00:41:41) - Pretty much everything.

Gretchen Rubin (00:41:42) - You feel like.

Gretchen Rubin (00:41:42) - What could be more obvious?

Gretchen Rubin (00:41:43) - I hang out with myself all day long. How could I not know myself? And yet it's a great challenge of our lives. And so this is the thing. We're like, start with yourself and know like, what does make me feel overwhelmed? And maybe you're like, You know what? It's music in the background like that. That just kind of raises my level of agitation or or maybe it's people talking like I'm fine if it's music, but I don't like people talking. What is overwhelming you? Some people are kind of oblivious to smells and other people are acutely aware of them.

Gretchen Rubin (00:42:10) - This is a really good way to to sort of be aware of what might be overwhelming to you because again, it's kind of easy to let these things get pushed to the background. But if you pay attention, then you can manage it more and you can, you know, try to try to do what you can and sometimes just to be aware like, Oh, I'm feeling this way because of that noise. You know, there's that jackhammer outside. And I think that's what's making me feel just kind of the conscious awareness of that will help. I will say, too, that we were talking earlier about how the brain is most interested in change. The other thing that the brain really cares about is people. The brain really cares about people. People are opportunity, people are danger. And so, again, if you're in an office and you can hear people talking or you can see people walking around, that's often very, very distracting because your brain is like, Hey, those two people are talking.

Gretchen Rubin (00:42:59) - You better try to look at the expressions on their faces and see if they're talking about you And you know, who is she mad at her. And you know, what's what am I missing? And so you might want to if you're in a place where you are, you are hearing or seeing a lot of activity, you may be finding that like if you are finding it very hard to concentrate, that is because your brain is trying to tell you to pay attention, even if you know that you should be doing something else. If you're in a coffee shop where it all is kind of. A busy hum and nobody's in your business, then it's not as much. But if you're in an office where like you know the people and what they're saying could be relevant to you, you're going to get a big push to pay attention to that.

Jonathan Fields (00:43:34) - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. We're closing in on the hour. Can we sneak in one more question? Yeah, this is an interesting one.

Jonathan Fields (00:43:40) - I want to address a question from Renee also, and that is and it's more around growth does help to learn to focus on attention. And if you do that, will you maintain the growth of that sense? And I think even more broadly, can we train senses? Can we grow them? Can we somehow expand them So or is it just, you know, you get what you get and you don't get what you don't get upset?

Gretchen Rubin (00:44:02) - I absolutely think that you can. And again, I think this is why it's fun to know your neglected sense, because that's someplace where you have a lot of room for growth because you're not already tapping into it. But then with the things you appreciate, like you, you really like already are excited and you want to learn more. So, so kind of on both ends. It can be good. The more we know, the more we notice. This is like if you start bird watching, you see it like so many more birds, or if you take a wine tasting class like you taste wine so much better.

Gretchen Rubin (00:44:29) - So learning something about your senses, I really do. I think you could do it by month. That would be great. Or to do it every single day. I mean, either way, like, this is the way I did it with my journal. But you could do it any way you wanted, but at least for me, like to make a systematic effort to pay attention and then to remind myself going forward, to keep that uppermost in my in mind. I think that those are the two sort of the two challenges. But I find, at least for me, that it's been very much kind of the virtuous cycle where the more I know, the more I notice, the more I notice, the more curious I am, the more beauty I'm picking up. One of the things I did for the book was visit the Metropolitan Museum every day, which I still do, even though that my year challenge is long over and I feel like there's more to see at the Met than when I started.

Gretchen Rubin (00:45:15) - I'm more curious. I have more that I like am going to look for. And I think with all the senses that's true to the kind of the more you feed them, the more the appetite grows. So it is a tremendous opportunity for.

Jonathan Fields (00:45:28) - Growth, even just, you know, like producing podcasts for over a decade now. I am so attuned to sound as a sense that I'll walk into an environment and somebody else will say, It's so quiet here. And I'll be thinking, Are you kidding me? Don't you hear this and that and this and that and this. Because I know in a recording context, right? It would be a disaster.

Gretchen Rubin (00:45:46) - Yeah. Yeah, right.

Jonathan Fields (00:45:48) - You know, that that has just become a much more. Almost like dominant sense for me, probably because I've been so invested in really paying attention to it for so long. So as we wrap up here today, maybe our team, we can just pop that link up for the quiz again. Definitely invite everyone to take the quiz and Gretchen, tell them again what the quiz is about.

Gretchen Rubin (00:46:09) - So it's like nine short questions. It's really fun to take and it will tell you your neglected sense. So this is the sense that you least often turn to for pleasure or comfort. It's the one that you're probably more aware of, kind of the negative aspects of that sense. Then of the positive aspects of that sense, you might use it for utilitarian purposes, but it's not something that you seek out, adventures want to learn about, want to use it to engage with other people. This is a great opportunity for growth because it's something that you're not already tapping into appreciated sense. You're probably already doing those things. Do more of it. More is is even better, but you're probably doing that already.

Jonathan Fields (00:46:46) - Great. Awesome. Closing thoughts on the Senses five Senses.

Gretchen Rubin (00:46:50) - Again, I think this is what did you call I said this Swiss army knife and you said the Swiss army.

Jonathan Fields (00:46:55) - Late Swiss sensory knife or.

Gretchen Rubin (00:46:56) - Something. Yeah. This was three type. Yes.

Gretchen Rubin (00:46:58) - It's sort of whatever it is that you're trying to achieve in your life, think about how could I use the five senses to help me do that? And I think because the five senses are familiar and concrete, in my experience, if you say to people something like, okay, you really need to like sit down and be more productive and just, you know, just like get stuff done, what could you do through the five senses to help you do that? People very quickly will think of four or 5 or 6 very practical, very concrete, manageable things that they can do because we know the senses.

Gretchen Rubin (00:47:29) - You know, you don't need to take a class. You don't need to buy equipment. You know what these things are. And maybe you don't have all five, but you can use what you have. So I think that this is something that we sort of overlook. But then when we think about it, we often find that we have lots of ideas that we're really excited to try to experiment with.

Jonathan Fields (00:47:44) - Yeah, love that. Gretchen Always great hanging out, Love talking about the five senses with you and for everyone else who joined in today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's always a pleasure sharing time and we'll see you back here on our next LinkedIn live. Take care, everybody.

Gretchen Rubin (00:47:58) - Bye bye.

Jonathan Fields (00:48:01) - Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And if you'd love to share your own moment and question with us, we would love to hear from you.

Jonathan Fields (00:48:17) - Just go ahead and click on the submissions link in the show notes to get the details on how to do that. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life. Take the time to discover your own personal spark. A type for free at Sparketype. It'll open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate Sparked in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive and work in life together. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields. And this is Sparked.