Work Culture Red Flags and Green Lights

LinkedIn: [00:00:00] Linkedin presents.

Jonathan Fields: [00:00:09] So you know that little voice inside your head, the one you've heard before, whispering, this place just isn't letting me thrive. Or maybe you felt the opposite. Those energizing moments where your values align perfectly and your whole self showed up effortlessly in your work. If those experiences resonate, pay attention. Because work cultures, they shape our daily experience, our motivation and growth as human beings in powerful ways. Get it right and you unlock incredible fulfillment. But get it wrong and every day can feel like a grind. In today's episode of SPARKED, I'm joined by Shelley Adelle Bliss, one of our fabulous SPARKED endeavors team members, and together we're exploring this often overlooked catalyst for growth or grumpiness. Because you deserve more than just punching a clock, you deserve a culture that lets you truly flourish. So we dive into the core elements of culture, why it matters, how culture affects you and what to look for, and also what to run from and how to choose or craft a work culture that supports your ability to come alive not just in work, but in life. And we're going to talk about probably a whole bunch of elements and aspects of culture that are maybe a little bit new to you as well. So let's dive in and find out how to find, cultivate, craft or create, or find yourself in a culture that makes you come alive. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is SPARKED. And one last thing before we dive into today's conversation, we are incredibly excited to be sharing a new feature on the SPARKED podcast, Career Transformation Stories.

Jonathan Fields: [00:01:57] We'll be inviting guests to share inspiring stories of their career transformations, from leaving behind unfulfilling jobs to pursue new, more inspired, energized, purposeful, and passionate paths. We're looking for people who've made the decision to spark change in their work lives. Now. This could range from stories of people who reimagined the way they do the same job, so it feels better to those starting entirely different roles companies, industries, or even launching their own endeavors. We're particularly interested in featuring guests who have taken or are open to taking the Sparketype assessment. This unique tool helps you discover your unique imprint for work that makes you come alive, and we'd love to explore how your Sparketype has played a role in your career transformation. So by sharing your story on SPARKED, you'll have the opportunity to inspire others who may be feeling stuck or unsure about their own career paths. And we'll also be talking to me about your journey and your sparketype. So maybe we can tease out a few more insights and awakenings. So if you're ready to ignite, change and share your story with our community, we encourage you to apply to be a guest on SPARKED. We believe that everyone deserves to find fulfillment and purpose in their work, and we're on a mission to help you get there to apply. Go ahead and check out the form in the show notes now. Hey, and we're back. And today we're diving into one of our Hot Topic episodes. So, Shelly, what do we have on tap today?

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:03:34] Yeah. Today we're going to discuss how to identify and pursue your ideal work culture.

Jonathan Fields: [00:03:40] Yeah. So this word culture, it comes up so much. Um, and there's a lot of debate about what culture is, what culture isn't, how much it really matters or doesn't matter. I think increasingly people are starting to realize it is hugely important, especially. And I think the last five years have really been a wake up call when people are realizing how much the culture of your work, your organization, was a factor in why people were showing up and doing their best work and staying in particular places. And now that so much of the ways of work are changing and not going back to the way things were. People are trying to figure out how do we reimagine culture in a way that is really most supportive of us, but I think also, you know, probably a big question here is like, what actually is culture?

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:04:34] Yeah, let's start by defining work culture so we can really orient ourselves.

Jonathan Fields: [00:04:38] Yeah. And I think people define a lot of different ways, but for our purposes we really look at it as, you know, what are the shared values and beliefs and attitudes and behaviors in an organization. So, for example, a tech startup with a collaborative culture might have open office spaces and frequent team brainstorming sessions and focus on innovation and creativity. While as in a very, very past life, you know, I was a lawyer, which most people can't believe. And I worked in one of the largest firms in New York City that had been around for a zillion years, and it was very prestigious. And, you know, this was a culture which was almost the exact opposite, you know, it was. And then I remember to this day, being on a team where we were doing a deal and we were, you know, this is back in the day where when you're doing an IPO, everyone would go and you would descend on the printers and you would work on and negotiate all the final points to file the documents to do the thing. And there were, you know, teams from other mega firms there. And I remember, you know, three in the morning, one night I'm talking to one of the other lawyers in another firm, and she's describing to me how sort of like part of the culture in her firm is that every door is closed. Mhm. You know, you'd walk down the halls and every door of every office was closed unless there was a reason to open it. And I was like, wow, I don't think I would be okay in an environment like that. Um, you know, so it really is, it's it's the amalgamation of all these different things and qualities. And it is also not what you see on a poster, on a wall or on a website. It is the actual lived experience and that is a huge differentiator.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:06:12] Yeah. So then let's talk about why does culture matter on the individual level.

Jonathan Fields: [00:06:17] Yeah. And again, I think, um, thank you for setting up on the individual level here. You know, because I think people talk about culture often in terms of how it benefits the organization. And it does for sure. You know, they're just like in other conversations we've had here about flow and other topics. There are huge benefits of an organizational level. But on an individual level, you know, people often forget about why culture matters to me as as maybe I'm a mid-level manager or an entry level in a company or a business or a retail shop. You know, why does it actually matter to me on a day to day basis? And it's really important, you know, but I think, you know, right out of the gate, very often the right culture leads to enhanced job satisfaction. If you feel supported by the culture that you work in, people generally report they're just much happier and more fulfilled, the more satisfied with their jobs. So employees who feel valued and respected, um, assuming that's the culture in which you like to thrive and it's not 100% true for everybody, um, you're more likely to enjoy your work and feel a sense of accomplishment. We also know that, you know, culture fits. Really good culture fits can really help with motivation and engagement. And engagement has become just a big buzzword in the org world these days. People want, you know, on the leadership side, the company side, people want their employees to be motivated and engaged. But on an individual side, it really matters to us to like, I want to wake up in the morning and go into work and feel like I'm excited. I'm locked in to what I'm doing here, not because, you know, of some sort of obligation, but because my own intrinsic motivation for this is saying, yes, more, please. This is awesome. You know, I'm willing to.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:07:58] Go the extra mile because my I'm aligned with the company's values.

Jonathan Fields: [00:08:02] Yeah, exactly. And I feel and I'm doing it because of the way it makes me feel as much as the fact that I, you know, I know it'll probably get noticed and help me like in a larger scale thing. So a really positive work culture can boost that motivation and environment. So employees are aligned with the company's values and goals, which often is a part of culture. They're often more enthusiastic about their work and willing to go the extra mile. And again, when you're just talking about yourself, there's a benefit to you in being able to feel a certain way and then perform in a certain way, and then have that recognized and potentially benefit you more long term. Um, there's another, probably less often exploration of how culture and why culture really matters to us in terms of the benefits, which is culture's effect on our own personal wellbeing and mental health. And I'm curious what your take is on this in particular because you've worked in different cultures. And I know, like the effect can be really dramatic, I think, on our wellbeing.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:09:02] Yeah. And I think it's a big pain point on the whole. Then, you know, anytime someone's complaining about their job, it's it's often that there are no mental health resources. There's no work life balance. Um, yeah. It's just always been really important for me, both in companies that I've worked for and in a few businesses that I've run to make sure I have access to wellness programs, mental health resources, you know, taking a day off PTO, being able to go and drop into a yoga class, you know, anything that helps to reduce stress and burnout, I think is hugely important.

Jonathan Fields: [00:09:34] Yeah. And we see that across the board. And one part of it is a culture that has designated wellbeing activities. But the other part is also just like the general qualities of a really healthy and supportive culture will indirectly affect mental health and physical health. So like if you have a culture that really centers dignity and respect, that is going to affect your wellbeing. You know, if you have a culture that really, um, respects boundaries, that is going to have an impact on your ability to then use those wellness activities, or use the gym or talk to the coach that's on staff. So it really makes a difference in our well-being, which I think a lot of times we think about culture as just, you know, how we feel when we're doing doing our job in the office. Are we productive? But it affects us on a personal level, on a wellbeing level? Um, pretty deeply for sure. You know, one of the other big benefits is the sense of personal and professional growth that comes along with, you know, a really supportive culture. So opportunities for growth and development, they tend to be more prevalent in positive work cultures. And what we see now is that people are really much more interested in being supported in their professional growth and also their personal growth within organizations, which is a bit of a change. Professional growth was sort of like a growing category for years, but now people actually also want to feel more supported in their ability to grow as human beings. And I think some companies are really struggling to figure out, like, what is the culture that I need to create here that would allow.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:11:07] So things.Like mentorship.

Jonathan Fields: [00:11:08] Yeah, things like that. You know, developing people through mentorship, through programs specifically to help out in the individual growth. So you would often see historically, well, things that would allow you to become more skilled in the particular domain of your job, you know, or things or even career development programs within companies. But what we're seeing more now also is sort of like things that also help people just feel better about their own personal individual growth, you know, inside and outside of the organization. Some of the resistance to that has been historically. But if I really help somebody grow personally and figure out who they are and what matters to them, and they may realize they don't want to be here.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:11:49] And we all know a toxic, a toxic work environment when we see it.

Jonathan Fields: [00:11:55] Right? And even if it's not outright toxic, if somebody just gets to a point where they've actually they know themselves on a level now where they realize, you know what, this this place is actually okay, but it's not for me. Wouldn't you want that person to move on so that they could find the thing that was right for them, and that you could actually find the person where, like, this culture was the best fit for them and or the mission or the product or whatever it was, was the best fit for them. So I always find that a really suspect argument when I have those conversations with leaders. Another one of the benefits of, um, of really focusing on culture and creating a positive culture is it's a phrase that I actually really dislike, but I'll use it because it's sort of like the common language. So and the phrase is work life balance. Ah, you know, it's this notion that a supportive work culture promotes a healthier work life balance. I don't like the phrase because work life balance means that in my mind that these are two opposing things that you need to balance against each other, you know? So for me, I prefer phrases like work life, blend like how do you harmoniously do that thing called work and life? And how do you find a blend, sort of like a more meshing or a seamless thing where you know, it's adequately boundary, but at the same time you have a really good sense of how these things weave together in a way that, um, feels nourishing to you. And that's a culture in an organization that allows you to find that blend can be incredibly helpful. So, you know, if, if, if I offer a phrase like that to you, what what comes up for you in terms of like some things that might be part of that culture.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:13:33] A flexible working hours, um, understanding. I might have other commitments. I'm not a parent, but many of the people on our team are parents. And you have to, you know, do kid drop offs and sometimes they're sick, right? So just being really flexible to what the the reality of your employees are going through in their life, I think would make a lot of sense.

Jonathan Fields: [00:13:53] Yeah, I think that's spot on, you know, and there's so many ways to think about this where it's like, how do I support the broad? How does the culture of work support the broader flourishing of the people within this work container, like both inside of that container but also outside of it. I think there's a lot of new thinking going on around this. There's a lot of thinking that we're doing, and it makes a really difference. You know, one of the other big benefits of a really positive, healthy work culture is generally you have stronger relationships and teamwork improves. So positive work cultures tend to foster deeper connections, better collaboration, better teamwork, you know, so the collaboration and mutual support among colleagues, it leads to a stronger sense of camaraderie and belonging. And we know that that then leads to greater cooperation, to better output, to greater creativity, you know, ideation, insight, productivity. So these things have a really powerful benefit in terms of how people work together on teams. There's another interesting benefit also to a really positive work culture, which is a greater sense of job security. You know, a healthy work environment often correlates with just the sense that I'm going to be okay. This like this work is secure, even if the world is a little bit topsy turvy, that like, I can stay in this place, I'll be respected. And and even if there's something that happens on a corporate level, which means, you know, like there need to be changes or downsizing that because the culture is positive and healthy and supportive and open, that I'll be supported in a way where I'm still going to be okay. Mhm. Um, yeah.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:15:29] What comes up for me is that, you know, long held belief that, you know, better not let your boss see you take a break or you have to be available 24 hours a day. And just like this, anxiety and fear that bubbles up if I'm not performing in the way that I'm meant to. Absolutely would lead to turnover.

Jonathan Fields: [00:15:46] Yeah. And also and what you're describing too is like part of this is also this sense that, like, if you show up and really give your all and you work hard and you're doing great work and you enjoy what you're doing, that that part of that, that healthy culture is also going to have you being recognized for that and then rewarded for it, you know, and you're going to be more likely to be recognized and rewarded. If you do have this healthy culture where, you know, you can also try new things and take risks and not be punished for it, and know that part of everybody's job is to explore and push the envelope, and that this is a part of the culture, that we're all in this together. In fact, there's a lot of data that shows that companies that not only allow but resource this type of exploration, they tend to be the most innovative, the most sort of industry leading ones, and the people within them tend to be happier because they get to play, you know, and they know that they're constantly trying new things, and if it doesn't work, that's it's going to be okay, you know? Because eventually if they try enough things, something will. And that's part of the culture of the place. And you're not going to be punished by doing this. Yeah.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:16:47] I could see so much more satisfaction in that environment versus every time the boss calls you, you're in trouble. How about being recognized and rewarding? Rewarded for all of the good work that you're doing?

Jonathan Fields: [00:16:57] Yeah, and even the thing that, you know, if it doesn't work out. Hey, listen, like, this thing didn't work out, you know, like, we all knew that. We have no idea. But, like, good on you for trying. And, like, let's keep exploring and seeing what else might work out rather than you totally messed up, you know, like you put us at risk. Um, like you're out of here. We want people who are just heads down, cogs in the machine and, like, do the thing that we've always done, which leads to really bad outcomes for the bigger organization long term anyway. And that that really leads to one of the other benefits, which is positive cultures often let people experience a much stronger sense of purpose and meaning in the work that they're doing. You know, when when you as an employee, see how your work contributes to the company's mission. And that mission also really resonates with your own sense of mission and purpose and where you derive meaning that can be incredibly powering for you. Because we are meaning making beasties. You know, when we work hard at something that really doesn't matter to us and gives us no sense of purpose? Eventually that gets old pretty fast. So a culture that really allows you to do work that is deeply meaningful to you can be beneficial to them because you'll show it and devote yourself on a whole different level, but also for you because you feel more just personally nourished and and then finally, I think a positive culture also, it can really help with creativity and innovation.

Jonathan Fields: [00:18:20] You know, it lets you feel safe. And this is kind of what we were alluding to a little bit before. Not just safe to, you know, take risks, but even safe to share what's on your mind, safe to express ideas. Like if you're sitting around a table with, like, a team and a leader, they're saying, I need your best ideas, right? They're going to be a lot of people with ideas that if they don't feel safe, if they don't feel like there's a positive, supportive culture, they're not going to share their ideas and then they lose because it could have been an awesome idea. And then the organization loses because it could have been an awesome idea. And the eventual beneficiary, the client, the customer loses because they never see that idea become manifest. So, you know, I think positive supportive cultures, safe cultures are really important for that level to I know that was a really long winded list of benefits.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:19:12] No. That's great. Makes me think like, well then what is our next step then? Like how do how do we orient ourselves to be able to find a culture of an organization that's right for us?

Jonathan Fields: [00:19:24] Yeah. And I'm glad you used that phrase right for us at the end, too. Right. Because it's sort of like there's no one dream culture that's right for everybody. There are some sort of probably generalized traits or elements like that safety or like, you know, like something where there's intrinsic meaning. But but a lot of elements of culture are really kind of unique to us, you know. So I think the starting point here is really we need to start by looking at ourselves, by doing a bit of self assessment, you know, to figure out what are our values, what are our orientations, what are our preferences, so that we can understand what matters to us in culture when we actually show up and start looking for it. So often we don't ever ask those questions. We don't do the self inquiry first. You know, this is one of the core reasons that our entire company exists. We developed the sparketype body of work, these archetypes, and we developed the assessment back in 2018. And now something like a million people have taken it, and in no small part because this is a tool that helps you really understand what is it that makes me come alive, you know, like what? What needs to be present in my work to make me come alive, and also what kind of work empties me out so that you can look for these in the culture when you're considering either a new opportunity and a new organization, or maybe even just shifting what you're doing and how you're doing it in the same organization so that, you know, maybe you're on a different team or division or, you know, a different immediate supervisor, so that the culture really suits and supports you in a much higher way.

Jonathan Fields: [00:20:54] And of course, there are other, you know, there's so many other ways to go into that self-discovery. There are plenty of other assessments and tools, strengths finders and all sorts of great other things and desk and and then there's just process of inquiry, like, who am I? What are my values? This is a lot of the the work that we do and also the process that we tend to do beyond just saying, hey, what is your sparketype. Mhm.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:21:15] I would imagine then also researching your potential employers instead of just looking for who's hiring would, would be a yeah, another anchor 100%.

Jonathan Fields: [00:21:24] Right. So so so often you know, we just kind of show up, um, cold and or we, we do a quick glance at an employer's website and we're like, oh, well, whatever it is on their website or whatever's in the pamphlet or the book or. Well, that's got to be them. But as we have all been in a position like where we've shown up, you're like, ooh, yeah, the poster on the wall that actually doesn't represent the day to day lived experience of what's happening here. So it is really important to, once you do the internal research and say, who am I? What what is important to me about the particular culture I want to be in. Then we also want to go and do that external research on a potential opportunity and say, okay, so what's being presented? You know, um, but also what's really true here, you know, so things like, I mean, if, uh, if you're sort of like thinking about this, like, what are some of the other things that would come to mind for you, for how you might figure out what's real?

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:22:23] Well, I'd certainly start with their social media. So I'd see how do they, you know, present themselves to the world and are they interacting with comments? But I'd also look for reviews. So I read it's probably going to be my very next stop. And if I had an ability to like, attend any sort of hiring event or a company webinar, if they had any resources online, you know that I could digest, I definitely would be taking more time that way.

Jonathan Fields: [00:22:49] Yeah, no. Completely agree. I think there's so much that we can do, so much research that we can do about a company's culture before ever stepping foot inside of a company or talking to a person that often we don't do. We just want we're looking for the big things, but we're not looking for the subtler culture cues. And then once you get in, let's say you're interviewing for something, right? Oftentimes we look at interviews as, oh, I've got to sell myself to them, rather than what an amazing opportunity for me to actually really pay attention here and ask the questions that I truly want answers to, not just the ones that I think they want me to ask. And a lot of those can be around culture, you know, like saying. And so much of this also comes from observing, you know, when if you're going through an interview process and some firms now have interview processes where there's like rounds and rounds and batteries of interviews, so you're really in there talking to 20 or 30 different people and sometimes different locations. Look at what people are saying non-verbally to look at those tells, listen to what they're saying, and then observe what's going on. And then in the physical environment when you're walking around it really pay attention. What's the energy? What's the vibe? Are people you know are there is every person's shoulders up by their ears because they're carrying a little bit of stress and a lack of safety and a touch of fear, you know? Are people relaxed? Are they is everyone buttoned down and nobody's talking or Or people, like, actually enjoying themselves and having conversation or a lot of people smiling or not? You know, so much can be found out sort of by just observing in a lot of different ways.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:24:19] That makes so much sense. I would imagine, to interviewers who avoid questions about the team dynamics or if the job itself is vague, that to me would be a red flag.

Jonathan Fields: [00:24:30] Yeah. And which brings us, I think also to really part of the job is identifying red flags. You know, part of it is looking for is what I want to be there there. And then part of it is, is what I absolutely don't want to be there there also. Right. You know, and these are the I think a lot of times in a really aggressive way, the classic flags of a toxic work culture, which I think we all know well enough to probably not have to list them here, but also there, the subtler things, you know, in a conversation, like if you're in a conversation, there are two people interviewing you. And that's that happens often. There's sometimes there's a panel of people interviewing you. How are the people? How are the different interviewers treating each other? Not just you. You know, like if there's a senior person and a junior person, how is the senior person actually treating the junior person? Like you can watch stuff like that. And it's it's it's fascinating when you really start to pay attention to all the stuff that is not being said, because the not just the things that you do want, but oftentimes the red flags, they jump out at you pretty aggressively, and then you start to once you see it once or twice, then you very often start to see it all over the place. Um, and that can be incredibly helpful to tease those out.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:25:40] So then what might be an example of a green flag when we're still trying to assess what type of organization works for us?

Jonathan Fields: [00:25:46] Yeah. You know, I think one of the things and we've all heard this word so many times, values. And this again, is one of those things where I tend to have a little bit of a different reaction to the word. I don't know anybody who's ever been in a company long enough where they haven't done some kind of values exercise, you know, and the question is generally like, you know, here's a giant list of things, you know, circle the five that are most important to you, which is good to know. Right? But, um, oftentimes it doesn't inform your decision making process. You know, I think as part of your self discovery process, like we were talking about earlier, we do a specialized values exercise we call actionable values that actually adds and and makes granular verb phrases so that our values exercise actually is useful as a day to day decision making point. Um, but then you take that once you know that about yourself. I think one of the huge green flags is, do the values being expressed in this culture align with my own actionable values? Do they support each other? And again, this is one of the things where very often the values are written on the website, they're written on a wall, they're on the brochure. And what is actually expressed on a day to day basis is completely different. So.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:26:58] So if I value sustainability and social responsibility, not only am I looking for companies with strong environmental policies, I want to make sure that their actions back it up. And they're engaged in community programs.

Jonathan Fields: [00:27:10] Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like go beyond what's being stated and really look at what are they doing, you know, and because that is always the biggest tell I think in my mind. And, you know, we talked about in using interviewing for a culture fit also, but, um, you know, oftentimes interviewing especially, you know, it's interesting interviewing used to always mean, well, you go into the place and then you interview, um, oftentimes it doesn't mean that anymore. Like you go into the zoom room or you go into like whatever it is and like, that's all you get. I would recommend, especially because these days you don't really know, you know, what the work environment is going to be like. But I would if you have the opportunity to do it. And if you know that part of at least part of the work you're going to be doing is going to be physical on location, find a way to get on location as soon as you can, and hopefully repeatedly so you can really evaluate the work environment. So part of the interview process is to observe and ask the questions, but also the physical work environment. We find from a culture standpoint, most people completely ignore the physical work environment.

Jonathan Fields: [00:28:18] As a culture element. It is so important, right? So for me personally, I love to work generally in light spaces. You know, in actual, you know, where the daylight is coming through. I have friends that love to work in dark caves. Um, it's completely unique and individual, and offices tend to have very different physical environments, and we often tend to look at those physical environments as a culture element that we just have to take. You know, it's it's that's just it comes along with the job rather than saying, no, this actually really makes a difference, not just in my ability to do the work I'm here to do on the highest level, but to flourish as an individual. And I really want to work in a physical environment that matters to me, which is one of the reasons why so many people are actually now saying at least part time. I also want to be able to work remote because then they can control the physical environment. So that aspect of culture, no matter what the actual office space is, becomes more within their control, at least for enough of the time that it helps them do it.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:29:16] So if we're let's say we're work from home culture and we're in the virtual setting, then we're also trying to notice if what meetings are inclusive and interactive, and there's a direct feedback loop via slack or some other direct mechanism. Direct messaging mechanism.

Jonathan Fields: [00:29:33] Yeah, 100%. Because now, like you're saying, you know, we we now need to analyze sort of like the, the work environment, both in the, the in-person domain and in the virtual domain as well, you know, how do people interact. And oftentimes people interact differently. The same people interact differently in a physical space versus a virtual space, for sure. And that can change things, you know, which also brings up, I think, another important thing to look for. And it's, for lack of a better word, sort of like cultural agility or adaptability. Um, it's this it's this thing where you can demonstrate flexibility and agility while maintaining your core values. So often you see cultures that are what I would call brittle. They're locked in place. They sort of like they are what they are, and they have been that way for so long that when adversity hits, when change hits, when a certain groundlessness hits, when the market changes, when the economy changes, or when you lose your biggest client, they can't handle it. They're they're so locked into a particular way of being a particular set of values, a particular operating principles that they can't easily adapt. And when that happens, oftentimes, you know, there's also a lack of communication. Um, so if you value agility and adaptability, if you want to know that, you know that you're actually ready to dance. You can make changes. You can do all these different things, but you want to be included. You want to be looped in. You want to have communications that, you know, bring you into the process rather than these hierarchical, brittle things that that's something that you really want to sort of like poke around as well.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:31:16] Yeah, I guess you have to respect the existing protocols but somehow start to introduce, you know, alternative ways of communication.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:25] Yeah. And again, at the end of the day, you know, it helps not just the organization, but it helps you to know that there's a certain amount of agility or a certain amount of input that's invited and adaptability that comes along with what you're doing.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:31:38] And I would imagine that this is a continuous exercise where, you know, regularly assessing if we fit within this type of culture.

Jonathan Fields: [00:31:44] Yeah, exactly. That's such a great point, right. Because a lot of times we say, okay, so we're going through the process. So maybe we're talking about a subtler internal change. Maybe we're just shifting to a different role or different job in the same company. Maybe we're making a really big change, different company, different industry. Either way, we tend to do this analysis when we're first actually deciding whether to say yes or no. And then we kind of set it and forget it, you know? And then we realize over time, oh things actually, not only are they not what they said they were, but they also aren't what I sussed out, like, I think like some of my own assessment was wrong. It was a little bit off or things just change over time. They started out being great. But you know, six months in a year in, there's just there's culture shift, there's what we call drift. And so I think what you're bringing up is so important, this notion of continuous monitoring so that you can actually regularly reflect on like, is this still a culture fit for me, you know, and if it is, great, if it's not like, what are the intelligent things to do about it?

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:32:47] Yeah. And the Sparketype body of work, it reminds me of the reality check and the opportunity checks that we can do.

Jonathan Fields: [00:32:53] Yeah, 100%. Like, we have all these tools to say, okay, so we're going to help you move through a season of change with so much more confidence and clarity. And at the same time, we really are focused on the long term because, you know, like most of us are going to work for a lot of years. And to the extent that you can make that a joyful, rewarding, nourishing, meaningful, purposeful, exciting and energizing process, let's do it. And we have the tools to do that. But like I said and you shared, you know, things change over time. Even really good well aligned things. There's this drift phenomenon and the quicker we can catch it, the more able we are to often correct it. And that means sometimes we can correct it within the same role or organization. Sometimes it means that we have to make a bigger shift around it. And and that leads to, you know, like sort of like I think the final idea around culture, which is sometimes we have to make a change, right? You know, that that we have to take the steps to do what is right for us. If we find that the culture is just not a good fit. And sometimes that's immediate and necessary, like if there's something toxic or dangerous in the culture, and that can be the immediate culture between you and your supervisor.

Jonathan Fields: [00:34:00] Right? There is probably nothing more important than just figuring how to exit, figuring how to get yourself to a place of safety. Sometimes it's not that obvious and not that emergent, you know? And those are the times where I think a lot of times we kind of we relax into it a little bit too much. We're like, oh, it's not so bad. We tell ourselves a story because we don't want to go through the disruption of figuring out what to do about it, but I think it's really important to actually figure these things out. I mean, this is why so much of our body of work exists and all the sparketype work, and also why, you know, we spent years now working with and training a community, a global community of certified SPARKED advisors who can help people through these processes because they unfold over time. And oftentimes, whether it's with one of, you know, like a certified Sparketype advisor, a coach, a career guidance, whatever it is that you choose, I just find it can be incredibly helpful to work with somebody who is not yourself. Because, as our good friend Charlie Gilkey often says, you know the phrase, right? You cannot read the label from inside the jar.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:35:04] Ah, yes.

Jonathan Fields: [00:35:05] And we are the jar. So. So I think that wraps up, um, so like the general conversation on culture here. Um, but any final thoughts on this before we close out?

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:35:17] Oh, no.

Shelley Adelle Bliss: [00:35:18] I just I'm so grateful for our own company's culture. And and I look forward to seeing how this body of work can continue to make a positive impact on those who may have realized that their company's culture doesn't align and they start to look for new opportunities.

Jonathan Fields: [00:35:33] Yeah. And or even if you're realizing that you're within the culture and you're the immediate culture, you want to move to a different group, a different team, a different division, but but keep the broader culture of the organization like we have optionality when we really dive into it and understand what the possibilities are. And I think that's a lot of what what the work we do is and the idea of just can we expand optionality, I think is a beautiful thing for more people. Thanks always, Shelley, for hanging out and help facilitate this conversation. And to our fabulous listening community. We'll see you here again next time. Take care. Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Learned a little something about your own quest to come alive and work in life, and maybe feel a little bit less alone along this journey to find and do what sparks you. And remember, if you're at a moment of exploration, looking to find and do or even create work that makes you come more fully alive, that brings more meaning and purpose and joy into your life, take the time to discover your own personal Sparketype for free at sparketype.com. It will open your eyes to a deeper understanding of yourself and open the door to possibility like never before. And hey, if you're finding value in these conversations, please just take an extra second right now to follow and rate SPARKED in your favorite podcast app. This is so helpful in helping others find the show and growing our community so that we can all come alive in work in life together. This episode of SPARKED was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and Me, Jonathan Fields. Production and editing by Sarah Harney. Special thanks to Shelley Adelle for her research on this episode. Until next time. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is SPARKED.